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To: topcat54
Once again let’s note for the record it says "the sign of the son of man in heaven shall appear". It quite plainly does not say that that Jesus will physically appear anywhere.

Baloney -- read it again for the first time:

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." [Mt 24:29-31]

It says clearly: "they shall see the Son of man coming". If that is not a physical coming, then just what kind of coming is it???

577 posted on 11/10/2007 12:09:12 PM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip; 1000 silverlings; fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; Lee N. Field; ...
It says clearly: "they shall see the Son of man coming". If that is not a physical coming, then just what kind of coming is it???

Well, comparing Scripture with Scripture and seeing what the Bible mean when it speaks of "coming in (or with) clouds", it is a coming consistent with what Jesus said to the high priest in Matt. 26:64, "Jesus said to him, ‘It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.’"

If we apply a Jewish mindset, and not a futurist/dispensationalist one, and read, for example, Daniel 7, we will see what Jesus was referring to:

13 "I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. 14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed.
This is speaking of Jesus ascension to the Father when He received the throne of the promised kingdom (i.e., the throne of David in heaven). The visible evidence of this event on the earth was the ending of the old covenant system as represented by the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the old temple.
Ver. 30 And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven, &c.] the son of man himself: just as circumcision is called the sign of circumcision, #Ro 4:11 and Christ is sometimes called a sign, #Lu 2:34 as is his resurrection from the dead, #Mt 12:39 and here the glory and majesty in which he shall come: and it may be observed, that the other evangelists make no mention of the sign, only speak of the son of man, #Mr 13:26, Lu 21:27 and he shall appear, not in person, but in the power of his wrath and vengeance, on the Jewish nation which will be a full sign and proof of his being come: for the sense is, that when the above calamities shall be upon the civil state of that people, and there will be such changes in their ecclesiastical state it will be as clear a point, that Christ is come in the flesh, and that he is also come in his vengeance on that nation, for their rejection and crucifixion him, as if they had seen him appear in person in the heavens. They had been always seeking a sign, and were continually asking one of him; and now they will have a sign with a witness; as they had accordingly. (John Gill, 1809)

579 posted on 11/10/2007 12:26:46 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism is a disease ... as contagious as polio.")
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