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To: Alex Murphy; Quix; Lord_Calvinus; topcat54; tabsternager; Lee N. Field; blue-duncan; Alamo-Girl; ...
To believe both (the "Gospel transforms lives for the better" and the "world is waxing worse and worse") you must conclude that either

A) Transformed lives don't accomplish jack squat when working in groups, meaning groups can't be transformed

B) God doesn't plan on transforming lives in the future, or

C) The "transformed life" is but a temporary phenomena.

AMEN!

"So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed." -- Acts 19:20

Prevailed at what?

"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." -- Isaiah 55:11

This earth is not corrupt. Matter is not corrupt. That's the belief of gnostics, and wiccans and Al Gore. Man's nature is corrupt. And that's an important distinction.

This earth was created by God for His glory. And as the word of God is preached through the world to all men, the earth itself will benefit.

If one man on the side of God can move mountains, what can 100 men on the side of God accomplish?

"And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." -- Mark 11:22-24

This is why, too, the dirt of Israel is no more holy than any dirt on earth. It is the Holy Spirit which indwells men according to the will of God that counts as what is holy and what is not.

503 posted on 11/09/2007 10:57:21 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
And Jesus answering saith unto them, "Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall watch the mountain groweth before him until it fills the whole earth, even unto crushing all the saints beneath it, yet yeah verily ye will declareth victory over whatsoever ye saith until death.

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and keep ye deluding yourselves until that day when I will return unto you and finally accomplish Myself what ye could not do in My Name." -- Mark 11:22-24, Pretrib Dispensational Version

506 posted on 11/09/2007 11:05:08 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("Therefore the prudent keep silent at that time, for it is an evil time." - Amos 5:13)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; Quix; P-Marlowe; xzins; fortheDeclaration; tabsternager; ...

“A) Transformed lives don’t accomplish jack squat when working in groups, meaning groups can’t be transformed”

Transformed lives don’t accomplish jack squat without a warrant from God; election. It is the “many-few” principle.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen.

1 Tim. 4:1, “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”

2 Pet. 2:1-2, “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”

Jhn 15:18, “If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before [it hated] you.”

1Jo 3:13, “Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.”


510 posted on 11/09/2007 11:17:17 AM PST by blue-duncan
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; Quix; P-Marlowe; xzins; fortheDeclaration; tabsternager; Blogger

This earth is not corrupt. Matter is not corrupt. That’s the belief of gnostics, and wiccans and Al Gore.

The earth and all creation is under the curse of God because of His judgment on sin and like Jericho, must be purged with fire.

Gen. 3:17-19, “...cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”

Rom. 8:22-23, “For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.”

2 Pet. 3:10-14, “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.”


516 posted on 11/09/2007 11:46:08 AM PST by blue-duncan
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; topcat54; tabsternager; Lee N. Field; 1000 silverlings

***To believe both (the “Gospel transforms lives for the better” and the “world is waxing worse and worse”) you must conclude that either
A) Transformed lives don’t accomplish jack squat when working in groups, meaning groups can’t be transformed

B) God doesn’t plan on transforming lives in the future, or

C) The “transformed life” is but a temporary phenomena.

AMEN!

“So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.” — Acts 19:20
Prevailed at what?***

To all my more thoughtful post leaning Preterists (more thoughtful than the Dispy’s), I think that it is a bit more complicated.

This is NOT our world and our gift. We are but strangers in it. An, even if we are suppose to work for the common good of all mankind because we ALL bear the image of our Maker, what makes us so sure that the spiritual transformation in the lives of believers is suppose to achieve some kind of Edenesque utopia here on this earth before the return of the Lord? This world belongs to the reprobates right now in the sense that this is their last gift from God. The fact that they are selfishly destroying it is simply evidence that they are indeed reprobate. Even Calvin himself noted that this is the ante-room of hell. I do agree with my post-mill brothers that part of our God given destiny is to subdue the world. I don’t think its accomplishment is going to be in a fallen sin filled one.

I also don’t see any logical requirement that a transformed life in a believer equates to this paradise I hear post-mills talking about. What I do see if there is some kind of super majority of believers which forces some kind of utopian rule, it is still a rule with a little leaven in its midst and we are promised by the Lord himself that it will leaven the whole lump. Perhaps someone might explain to me the Scriptural rationale for an entire world conquered when the Lord himself posits the question to his disciples that when he returns will he really find faith on the earth.

I also note that the Acts 19 verse you used, my good sister, still has a world in which the prevailing Word of God was accomplished over ground wet with the blood of the saints. Remember, one of the things upon which the Lord waits for accomplishment before his return is the number of the martuero (forgive my memory if it is wrong) to be completed.


538 posted on 11/09/2007 1:27:38 PM PST by Lord_Calvinus
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