Posted on 10/26/2007 9:00:59 PM PDT by topcat54
No, no B-D. That’s the wrath of democrats, not the wrath of God we would be averting. On second thought, maybe Democrats are part of the judgment. Hmmmm. Something to ponder.
I'm not surprised. If you can take swords, bows, arrows, and horses as tanks, guns, and missiles, then why should you believe it when I say AD70 is not the second coming?
No -- they read only the Pentateuch not the Prophets, thus the name "Torah Jews".
Tell the scoffers to go get a life.
Memo to all Preterists: The Law of Moses, and the Prophets and the Psalms were given to Israel not the Gentiles, thus all prophecies therein regarding Israel will also be fulfilled.
But do you say that "the sign of the Son of man appeared in the heavens" back there in 70 AD [per Matthew 24:30]???
-- Yes or No
All this happens without a "great tribulation" or massive murder of Jews living in Israel, and without the secret "rapture" of the Church, without an antichrist, etc. The dispensational scheme is unnecessary to seeing a blessed future for Jewish people who come to faith in Jesus as Messiah and are regrafted into the people of God/body of Christ.
AMEN! "After belief." As we learned earlier, God may choose to cover the infant with grace, but if men are sentient and hear the Gospel, and still remain in disbelief, then they are without excuse.
I just read Spurgeon's sermon...
And you are right, Topcat, restoration of Israel comes only after the Jews have been given faith in Christ.
Israel is to undergo a Spiritual Restoration or a Conversion. The promise is that they shall renounce their idols and, behold, they have already done so. "Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols." Whatever faults the Jew may have besides, he certainly has no idolatry. "The Lord thy God is one God," is a truth far better conceived by the Jew than by any other man on earth except the Christian. Weaned for ever from the worship of all images, of whatever sort, the Jewish nation has now become infatuated with traditions or duped by philosophy. She is to have, however, instead of these delusions, a spiritual religion: she is to love her God. "They shall be My people, and I will be their God." The unseen but omnipotent Jehovah is to be worshipped in spirit and in truth by this ancient people; they are to come before Him in His own appointed way, accepting the Mediator their sires rejected coming into covenant relation with God, for so our text tells us: "I will make a covenant of peace with them." Jesus is our peace, therefore we gather that Jehovah shall enter into the covenant of grace with them, that covenant of which Christ is the federal head, the substance, and the surety. They are to walk in God's ordinances and statutes, and so exhibit the practical effects of being united to Christ Who hath given them peace. All these promises certainly imply that the people of Israel are to be converted to God, and that this conversion is to be permanent, for the tabernacle of God is to be with them, the Most High is, in an especial manner, to have His sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore; so that whatever nations may apostatise and turn from the Lord in these latter days, the nation of Israel never can, for she shall be effectually and permanently converted, the hearts of the fathers shall be turned with the hearts of the children unto the Lord their God, and they shall be the people of God, world without end..."
"Under the preaching of the Word the vilest sinners can be reclaimed, the most stubborn wills can be subdued, the most unholy lives can be sanctified. When the holy "breath" comes from the four winds, when the divine Spirit descends to own the Word, then multitudes of sinners, as on Pentecost's hallowed day, stand up upon their feet, an exceeding great army, to praise the Lord their God...The way in which Israel shall be saved is the same by which any one individual sinner shall be saved...
Not a physical tabernacle, but the perfect sanctuary of Jesus Christ. A converted Israel filled with Christians, just as the world is being filled with Christians. This is Spurgeon's take on Ezekiel 37. And he further states how this is accomplished...
I was thinking, as I read this chapter just now, that of all the sermons which were ever preached, this sermon to the dry bones is the most Calvinistic, the most full of free grace, of any which were ever delivered. If you will notice it you will find that there is not an "if," or a "but," or a condition in it; and as for free will, there is not even a mention of it. It is all in this fashion: "Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live; and I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord." You see it is all "shalls" and "wills" and covenant purposes. It is all God's decrees declared, and declared, too, as if there were no possibility of man's resisting them. He does not say, "You dry bones shall live if you choose, you shall if you are willing." He doth not say to them, "You shall stand upright and be an exceeding great army if it pleases you to consent to My power." No, it is, "I will," and "you shall." As for will, it is altogether put out of the question, for how shall the dead have a will in the matter? And so, dear friends, I would have the gospel preached both to the Jew and the Gentile with a very clear and distinct note of free, sovereign, almighty grace. Man has a will, and God never ignores that will, but by His almighty grace He blessedly leads it in silken fetters. He never stops to ask that will's consent when He comes forth upon His errands of effectual grace, but He wins that consent by the sweet persuasions of His own omnipotent love. He comes arrayed in the robes of His omnipotent grace, and the most hardened of rebels see at once such an attractive force in the love of God in Christ, that with full consent against their ancient wills they yield themselves captives to the grace of God. I do not believe that the Jews, or anybody else, will ever be converted, as a usual thing, by keeping back any of the doctrines of grace. We must have God's truth, and the whole of it; and more distinct utterances concerning evangelical doctrines and the grace of God are required both for Jews and for Gentiles. Preach, preach, preach, then, but let it be the preaching of Christ, and the proclamation of free grace... How shall we preach the gospel? Was Ezekiel to go and talk to these bones, but never to say a word to them by way of command? Was he to explain the way of salvation, but never bid them walk in it? No; after he had declared covenant purposes, he was then to say, "Thus saith the Lord, ye dry bones live." And so the message of the gospel minister when he has declared the purposes of divine grace, is to say to sinners, "Thus saith the Lord, believe in the Lord Jesus Christ; trust Christ, and you are saved." Whoever you may be, Jew or Gentile, whether your speech be that of the land of Canaan or of a Gentile tongue, whether you spring of Shem, Ham, or Japheth, trust Christ, and you are saved; trust Him, then, ye dry bones, and live. Withered arm, be outstretched; lame men, leap; blind eyes, see ye dead, dry bones, live. The manner of our preaching is to be by way of command, as well as by way of teaching. Repent and be converted, every one of you. Lay hold on eternal life. "Seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved." "It is the duty and the privilege of the Christian Church to preach the gospel to the Jewish people, and to every creature, and in so doing she may safely take the vision before us as her guide...."
Who cannot give this a heartfelt "AMEN!" But it sure doesn't sound remotely like the dispensational spin. Israel, along with the rest of the planet, prospers by the hearing of the word of God. And as many as are appointed to eternal life will believe.
"So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed." -- Acts 19:20
AMEN!
” When it didn’t happen, they merely moved the date up a few years.” (Chuck Smith, Dateline Earth: Countdown to Eternity, p. 26)
“. ... Forty years after 1948 would bring us to 1988.” (Chuck Smith, Future Survival)
“I’m convinced that the Lord is coming for His Church before the end of 1981.” (Chuck Smith, Future Survival)
That’s why God created erasers. Discerning the times is being alert and prepared for the Lord’s return. It is commanded, otherwise the attitude is the same as the preacher:(Eccl. 1:9)”The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.”
Exodus 12:11-12, “And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD’S passover. For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.”
Mat 16:3, “And in the morning, [It will be] foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O [ye] hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not [discern] the signs of the times?”
Matt. 25:13, “Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”
I just don't find this radical dispensational divide in Scripture. There are not two truths; there is only one truth for all men.
Christ fulfilled the law. Is God not speaking to you in Isaiah and in the Psalms and in the Ten Commandments?
Are not all things created by Jesus Christ and for Jesus Christ and through Jesus Christ?
***The Messianic Covenant ——— Dispensation of grace (Acts 2:4–Rev 20:3), the current church age.***
And Dan wonders why I phrased what I said a certain way the other day.
***Wow!! There’s enough heresy here to go to war over.***
When Calvinists deny that salvation is by the grace of God, then, perhaps. ;^) Hopefully, that is not how to read this. Hopefully, you really do belive that the dispensation of Grace began IN Eden and that no man in the history of mankind found salvation in any other way.
Literally speaking, the "the sign of the Son of man" is not the second coming.
But I can understand your confusion. If you do not carefully compare Scripture with Scripture you will come up with all sorts of unbiblical notions.
And yet you find preterism acceptable -- the belief that "the sign of the Son of man appeared in the heavens" in 70 AD??? My goodness!!!
There are not two truths; there is only one truth for all men.
Right -- but preterists believe only half those truths and the other half that they believe are fantasies.
Christ fulfilled the law.
But did He fulfill the Prophets yet???
“Does anyone know what the date setters in dispensationalism are using as the new and improved date for Jesus’ return based on 1948/1967 scenario?”
I’m not sure about the rest of them, but I saw a Youtube 2006 clip of Jack Van Impe using the Inca calendar to set the date for the Rapture (2012) as one of his latest possibilities.
So you agree that these prophets say nothing directly about the times in which we live, at that the political entity created in 1948 has nothing to do with the words of the prophets.
You're dancing on me here! Do you believe that that sign of the Son of man appeared in 70 AD or not??? Yes or No --
I thought you guys had all the answers -- so answer it.
What part of "law and prophets" don't you understand? Are you able to slice and dice with authority?
Talk about leaping to wild conclusions -- Nope
Has he fulfilled Amos 9??? Zechariah?? and the rest???
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