Posted on 10/25/2007 9:24:05 AM PDT by NYer
The Other Christ: Padre Pio and 19th Century Italy, by the historian Sergio Luzzatto, draws on a document found in the Vatican's archive.
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The document reveals the testimony of a pharmacist who said that the young Padre Pio bought four grams of carbolic acid in 1919.
"I was an admirer of Padre Pio and I met him for the first time on 31 July 1919," wrote Maria De Vito.
She claimed to have spent a month with the priest in the southern town of San Giovanni Rotondo, seeing him often.
"Padre Pio called me to him in complete secrecy and telling me not to tell his fellow brothers, he gave me personally an empty bottle, and asked if I would act as a chauffeur to transport it back from Foggia to San Giovanni Rotondo with four grams of pure carbolic acid.
"He explained that the acid was for disinfecting syringes for injections. He also asked for other things, such as Valda pastilles."
The testimony was originally presented to the Vatican by the Archbishop of Manfredonia, Pasquale Gagliardi, as proof that Padre Pio caused his own stigmata with acid.
It was examined by the Holy See during the beatification process of Padre Pio and apparently dismissed.
Padre Pio, whose real name was Francesco Forgione, died in 1968. He was made a saint in 2002. A recent survey in Italy showed that more people prayed to him than to Jesus or the Virgin Mary. He exhibited stigmata throughout his life, starting in 1911.
The new allegations were greeted with an instant dismissal from his supporters. The Catholic Anti-Defamation League said Mr Luzzatto was a liar and was "spreading anti-Catholic libels".
Pietro Siffi, the president of the League, said: "We would like to remind Mr Luzzatto that according to Catholic doctrine, canonisation carries with it papal infallibility.
"We would like to suggest to Mr Luzzatto that he dedicates his energies to studying religion properly."
Could you give me the Bible verse/s for that, please? I’ve got several versions, and over the years I’ve read through them several times, but I’ve never seen this in the Bible. TIA!
Amen, Amen, Amen. That's one nice thing about discussing stuff with people who believe in predestination. Most of the argument just falls into place.
"Why is it important to you to have a sinless Mary?"
Ah, now we're getting somewhere. Because Jesus' sinless human nature was derived entirely from her. As I think you agree, and as the Catechism states, the effects of original sin are the inheritance of our nature.
There's a little more discussion along these lines here.
Just for the sake of clarity, this doesn't make her equivalent to Christ or God. It makes her analogous to Eve --- only when Eve was still in the Garden of Eden, before the catastrophe. Eve was (at that time) sinless, and possessed a human nature as God intended it to be. Call it Human Nature Plan A. She and Adam, however, messed it up, which resulted in a defect in their nature, a defect which was heritable by their descendants. Surely we agree on that?
???
“Maya” comes from an Indian language and means “God’s creative power”—”Grace” comes from my Christian beliefs, and is also
an acronym for “Gifts Received at Christ’s Expense”.
She’s a natural believer (meaning I haven’t overpowered her with scriptural teaching or anything) and the questions she asks and the points she makes sometimes make me literally gasp to hear her. God has special plans for her, and since He gave me her name a year before I actually got pregnant (after I’d been told I would never get pg again in all likelihood) and a vision of me nursing her, I’ll stick with Maya Grace, thanks anyway. :-)
What is the source of this, please?
Is there more than one mediator between God and men? No.
If you can't see it, good luck.
Y’all enjoy your bier. Der Prinz and I are off to the Catholic Social Services wine blowout.
Do you adore Mary?
Why don't we stick with what the Scripture actually says, rather than what you want it to mean?
For example, try reading it context.
By the way, since there is (according to you), only one mediator between God and men, please don't pray for me.
I don't want you to commit blasphemy on my account, by setting yourself up as another mediator in addition to Christ.
LOL. You have yet to post the Scripture; you only comment on the Scripture.
""For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" -- 1 Timothy 2:5
And you're telling us Paul really means there are other mediators? lol. Thus, according to you and the sentence construction, there must be other gods.
If you have to mangle the text this badly, doesn't that tell you your understanding is skewed?
Maybe the text means exactly what it says. Maybe there really is one God and one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus, and thus, maybe you're in grievous error to fall down to the stock of a tree.
Try this as an understanding of the tri-une G-d.
If we only needed faith in the Father (which Adam, Abraham, Moses, David, etc. all obviously had) why would God need to create the people of Israel to be the ancestors of Jesus, and why would we need Jesus at all?
Just plain "one".
Don't add to the Scriptures.
No thanks.
Well, yeah. Though I would make this distinction: that doubting to the point of despair (in the sinful sense) is not identical to intellectual perplexity or a discouraged mood (which can be innocent.)
2 Cor 4:8 We are perplexed, but not in despair
We're expressly forbidden to pray to any one other than the Triune God for anything.
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God." -- Matthew 22:29
The Catechism of the Catholic Church.
By definition, that's mediation. If you can't see that, you're down to denying the meaning of words in the English language.
Funny you quote that verse.
Quote the verse before it, the next time you're tempted to call Mary or any of the saints, "dead".
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