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To: MHGinTN; Elsie
Perhaps, you like Elsie, would enjoy a thorough reading of Enoch. There are several references to a premortal life for all of God's children. Here is just a couple, to whet your appetite:

"…And every thing found in the world has been before and has passed before him and has been organized before him… All the creations of the world have existed in each generation before they came to this world. All the souls of the children of men have been before they came down to the world, formed, before him in Heaven in the very likeness that they have in this world… For all souls are prepared to eternity, before the formation of the world." – 2 Enoch 9

"Enoch answered the people saying, 'Before anything was and before the whole Creation took place, the Lord established the age of creation; and after that he made all of the creation both visible and invisible and after that he created man in his own image. He gave him eyes to see, ears to hear and a heart to think with and a mind to council. I swear to you my children that before man was in the womb of his mother we were prepared, each individual and a place for each spirit that each should sojourn here in his proper time, that man might be tested in the balance." – 2 Enoch 17

And lest you think I find only Apocrypha writings to testify of such things, here are old and new testament writings that speak of the same thing:

When God laid the foundations of the earth, all the sons of God shouted for joy, Job 38: 4-7. The spirit shall return unto God who gave it, Eccl. 12: 7. Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, Jer. 1: 4-5. We are all his offspring, Acts 17: 28. God chose us before the foundation of the world, Eph. 1: 3-4. We are to be in subjection to the Father of spirits, Heb. 12: 9. The angels which kept not their first estate, he hath reserved in everlasting chains, Jude 1: 6. The Devil and his angels were cast out, Rev. 12: 9.

289 posted on 09/18/2007 2:32:04 PM PDT by sevenbak (Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven. ~Psalms 85:11)
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To: sevenbak; svcw; Elsie; Cvengr; aMorePerfectUnion; Colofornian; Greg F; JRochelle; colorcountry; ...
Apocrypha are not in the Bible for reasons. I will leave you to play amongst the Apocrypha. Let's take your Bible verses one at a time and explore the twisting you've given to them in order to try and support your pretext of supporting the heresies taught by Joseph Smith.

When God laid the foundations of the earth, all the sons of God shouted for joy, Job 38: 4-7. First, lets put up the entire context of the mangled portion you chose for your 'special' mischaracterization purpose:
Job 38:4-7 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? ... Would these be the same 'sons of God' who went in to the daughters of men and of whom giants were born? Text without context is pretext. As I've said before to you, you take scriptures for your own special interpretation, wrongly dividing the word for your twister purposes.
The spirit shall return unto God who gave it, Eccl. 12: 7. And just how would this lifted passage prove the spirit of you existed before you were created in a body? Is a vessel imagined prior to being thrown by the potter? Yes, but the imagining is not the post in actuality. Your problem is with temporal perspective and counting, as you seek to support the heresy of Smith that the spirits of men were with God in counsel before the forming of the universe in which we live.
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, Jer. 1: 4-5. Again, your special interpretation neglects the reality that God's perspective can 'see' you before you ever come into existence and can know your days even into eternity before He even creates you in fact of spacetime the way we sense it.
We are all his offspring, Acts 17: 28. When Jesus told Nicodemus 'yet must be born again', He was explaining to Nic (and to you since He could 'see' you would be in time some where/when) that to be the 'off-spring' of God ye must be born again, in spirit. If you are born of His Spirit, you are His off-spring.
God chose us before the foundation of the world, Eph. 1: 3-4. And since you cannot allow your heresy-instructed mind to see that God can see you even before you enter the universe, you cannot grasp the truth of this verse and have the joy He intended when He chose those who He did predestinate to be conformed into the image of His Son. The 'us' refers ONLY to those in Christ and Christ in them, by the power of the Holy Spirit of God.
We are to be in subjection to the Father of spirits, Heb. 12: 9. I can only imagine what twist you Mormons will put upon this verse taken out of the context in which it was written! It begins to be digusting in your efforts to twist the excised portion of scripture --not the whole verse for it isn't as twistable for your demonic games-- so they support Smithism heresies! Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected [us], and we gave [them] reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? Heb 12:8 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Heb 12:10-11 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened [us] after their own pleasure; but he for [our] profit, that [we] might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
The angels which kept not their first estate, he hath reserved in everlasting chains, Jude 1: 6. Did your word search defy you here, settling upon Angels rather than upon spirits of men? How foolish to twist scriptures so blindly in service to heretical teaching by aq flase prophet!
The Devil and his angels were cast out, Rev. 12: 9. Take heed lest you suffer the same fate for seeking to elevate heresies to gospel and Smithian mischief to doctrine for salvation.

296 posted on 09/18/2007 3:54:40 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support. Defend life support for others in the womb.)
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To: sevenbak
Perhaps, you like Elsie, would enjoy a thorough reading of Enoch.

Or not.

Anton LaVey's stuff left me a bit cold.

328 posted on 09/19/2007 5:55:07 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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