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To: Frumanchu

I have not accused you of heresy; I merely have made a statement that is eminently proveable regarding heresies and the descendants of the Reformers.

I think that I have shown that Calvin followed at least 3 of the major 1st millennium heresies without any dispute whatsoever from his followers. If you wish further discussion on that subject, we can do so.

1 John:
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So there are three that testify,
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the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are of one accord.
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If we accept human testimony, the testimony of God is surely greater. Now the testimony of God is this, that he has testified on behalf of his Son.
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Whoever believes in the Son of God has this testimony within himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar by not believing the testimony God has given about his Son.
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And this is the testimony: God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
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Whoever possesses the Son has life; whoever does not possess the Son of God does not have life.
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3 I write these things to you so that you may know that you have eternal life, you who believe in the name of the Son of God.
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And we have this confidence in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.
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And if we know that he hears us in regard to whatever we ask, we know that what we have asked him for is ours.
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If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
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All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.
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We know that no one begotten by God sins; but the one begotten by God he protects, and the evil one cannot touch him.
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We know that we belong to God, and the whole world is under the power of the evil one.
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We also know that the Son of God has come and has given us discernment to know the one who is true. And we are in the one who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

The passage from 1 John says “that we may know”. Not “that we know”. Read your post back. There is no proof of your statement: “Scripture is pretty clear on the fact that men can KNOW that they have eternal life (1 John 5:13). I would assume that you believe as well that one can have assurance that they are at least presently in a state of salvation. “

If you would self identify as a heretic, then perhaps you might further examine your beliefs in order to find out why.


9,847 posted on 10/25/2007 6:07:37 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: MarkBsnr
I think that I have shown that Calvin followed at least 3 of the major 1st millennium heresies without any dispute whatsoever from his followers. If you wish further discussion on that subject, we can do so.

And which heresies would those be?

The passage from 1 John says “that we may know”. Not “that we know”. Read your post back. There is no proof of your statement: “Scripture is pretty clear on the fact that men can KNOW that they have eternal life (1 John 5:13). I would assume that you believe as well that one can have assurance that they are at least presently in a state of salvation.“

I said that Scripture is pretty clear on the fact that men CAN KNOW that they have eternal life. And what does the passage I cited say? "I write these things to you so that you MAY KNOW that you have eternal life." (The "may" is indicative of ability not probability)

If you would self identify as a heretic, then perhaps you might further examine your beliefs in order to find out why.

Let me get this straight...you want me to admit I'm a heretic in the hopes that I will then examine my beliefs and discover where my beliefs qualify me as a heretic?

So...you want me to identify myself as a heretic prior to actually believing that I am one...

(This after insisting you aren't accusing me of heresy)

I really don't know what to say....

9,852 posted on 10/25/2007 9:18:35 AM PDT by Frumanchu (Few things are funnier than being labelled a heretic BY a heretic.)
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