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To: GoLightly
Jesus cited Moses in His teaching on the issue

Yes, He did, and He also madeit very clear that it's wrong.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought EO churches grant divorces & allow remarriage after, but there's a limit on how many someone can have

The EOC does not "grant" a divorce. The Church recognizes civil divorce in very few and special cases (prostitution a spouse, and other extreme cases of which I believe the number is seven). Permission is granted to remarry by the bishop exercising "economy" based on spiritual needs and benefits of individuals involved.

Technically, the number of "marriages" is three, but in pratice, two are the limit. There is no rubber stam involved in any of this, Each case is scrutinized indivdiually.

I can understand this to some extent, but a divorce is really difficult to justify scripturally.

Personally, I've become a different person than the one I was before my divorce

I understand, and you are not alone. In some many cases staying married is a horrible predicament. I believe the EOC concentrates on God's mercy in such cases, weighing what is spiritaully best for the individual.

It's easy to say you must reconcile by repenting. One may repent and wish never to repeat what was done, and still not love the spouse. So, then the rest of your "marriage" continues in a loveless, dead entrapment.

Mercy over judgment is the rule, and when a bishop consents to a civil divorce or second "marriage," it is always mercy, and not judgment, but I can tell you that Orthodox second marriage ceremony is like a funeral.

Yt we must not forget that strictly scripturally speaking, the Gospels leave very little room for justifying a divorce.

The Catholics also have annullment which is not divorce in the strictest sense because no marriage took place...that is a little difficult for even the EO to fully accept, when in reality some of these nonexistent marriages existed and produced children. Some sort of love must have existed at the time of such "marriages."

The EOC can also say that non-Orthodox and civil marriages are not "existent" and not count them.

Either way, divorce is probably one of the most difficult biblical issues to reconcile with the reality of life.

8,467 posted on 10/06/2007 11:04:30 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
Yes, He did, and He also madeit very clear that it's wrong.

True & He took the teaching back to the beginning, before the Fall. The Fall caused our hearts to be hardened, towards God & towards one another. It is in our hardness of heart where you'll find much of the source for our desire to sin, to think & act against God's plan for us.

Marriage isn't an event, it's a process, something God uses to change us, soften our hearts. If/when we've become truly joined to one another, it is because God joined us together, "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." We make a promise to allow God to join us together, but then exclude God from our marriages & prevent Him from doing the work on us that we need.

The teaching Jesus gave us calls us to seek out God's original plan for marriage itself, so when we look at the teaching only in terms of divorce, we're missing much of its meaning. It's easy to get ourselves caught up in a legalism & make things look good on the surface, but when we do we're missing the mark.

The EOC does not "grant" a divorce. The Church recognizes civil divorce in very few and special cases (prostitution a spouse, and other extreme cases of which I believe the number is seven). Permission is granted to remarry by the bishop exercising "economy" based on spiritual needs and benefits of individuals involved.

IOW, the EOC doesn't consider all divorce to be an unforgivable sin?

Technically, the number of "marriages" is three, but in pratice, two are the limit. There is no rubber stam involved in any of this, Each case is scrutinized indivdiually.

I believe that is as it should be. IMHO, similar scrutiny should precede all marriages, including a first marriage. Too much of our thinking is caught up in process & not enough goes toward meaning in depth.

In some many cases staying married is a horrible predicament.

When marriage is a battle, yes. Divorce allowed me to release him from blame, forgive him for things which were not rightfully his. I've gone from hoping for death (his or mine, didn't matter) to praying for him to see the light.

I believe the EOC concentrates on God's mercy in such cases, weighing what is spiritaully best for the individual.

I believe this is the position of most Protestant churches, or at least that was the position of most of them, til some of them fell off the deep end, having loosened themselves from Scripture & any absolutes.

It's easy to say you must reconcile by repenting. One may repent and wish never to repeat what was done, and still not love the spouse. So, then the rest of your "marriage" continues in a loveless, dead entrapment.

A marriage can become dead entrapment, even when there is love in it. It needs to have love centered on God, by both partners.

Mercy over judgment is the rule, and when a bishop consents to a civil divorce or second "marriage," it is always mercy, and not judgment, but I can tell you that Orthodox second marriage ceremony is like a funeral.

As I alluded to earlier, IMO, too much of our thinking rests on the ceremony. From some things that I've read, EO understanding about the nature of sin is different than would be considered to be normal Western thinking of it. Isn't mercy over judgment the rule for all sins? It's not that there isn't judgment, but more like judgment doesn't end in a conviction. Our sins highlight our separation from God.

Yt we must not forget that strictly scripturally speaking, the Gospels leave very little room for justifying a divorce.

I agree, but I haven't found scriptural support for a position that it is an unforgivable sin either. A slew of sins lead up to one. What makes it the tipping point from bad to unforgivable?

The Catholics also have annullment which is not divorce in the strictest sense because no marriage took place...that is a little difficult for even the EO to fully accept, when in reality some of these nonexistent marriages existed and produced children. Some sort of love must have existed at the time of such "marriages."

While I understand where they're coming from, it does make marriage an act (cleaving to the spouse is instantaneous), not a process, which is where I have difficulty with their teaching about it.

The EOC can also say that non-Orthodox and civil marriages are not "existent" and not count them.

Considering the position some Protestant churches take on salvation, it would be easy for them to take the "never were married" position too.

Either way, divorce is probably one of the most difficult biblical issues to reconcile with the reality of life.

I agree.

8,508 posted on 10/08/2007 10:05:13 AM PDT by GoLightly
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