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To: HarleyD; MarkBsnr
I think you failed to grasp that I was being somewhat sarcastic .Also, If you fully understand Augustine or any of the other Saints for that matter, you would understand that it is the Church guided by the Holy Spirit that helped them GROW in faith.( I can easily pull up thousands of writings to back this up)

Dear Harley, Catholic’s do NOT deny that Faith is a gift.
We understand that FAITH is a gift given to those who are humble enough to freely accept it.

I’ll post this again for you....

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__PX.HTM

The freedom of faith

160 To be human, “man’s response to God by faith must be free, and... therefore nobody is to be forced to embrace the faith against his will. the act of faith is of its very nature a free act.”39 “God calls men to serve him in spirit and in truth. Consequently they are bound to him in conscience, but not coerced. . . This fact received its fullest manifestation in Christ Jesus.”40 Indeed, Christ invited people to faith and conversion, but never coerced them. “For he bore witness to the truth but refused to use force to impose it on those who spoke against it. His kingdom... grows by the love with which Christ, lifted up on the cross, draws men to himself.

6,302 posted on 09/15/2007 5:18:42 AM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi; MarkBsnr
Catholic’s do NOT deny that Faith is a gift. We understand that FAITH is a gift given to those who are humble enough to freely accept it.

Please observe what you have stated; faith is given to those who are humble. How can we humble ourselves when we don't even believe in the first place? I believe you miss the point of Augustine and Cyprian reasoning. You can't be given faith through humility. You must FIRST be given faith in order that you may become humbled. Since not all men have faith, then God does not give this faith to everyone. That was what Augustine rightfully reasoned.

6,304 posted on 09/15/2007 6:00:27 AM PDT by HarleyD
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