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To: stfassisi; MarkBsnr
Catholic’s do NOT deny that Faith is a gift. We understand that FAITH is a gift given to those who are humble enough to freely accept it.

Please observe what you have stated; faith is given to those who are humble. How can we humble ourselves when we don't even believe in the first place? I believe you miss the point of Augustine and Cyprian reasoning. You can't be given faith through humility. You must FIRST be given faith in order that you may become humbled. Since not all men have faith, then God does not give this faith to everyone. That was what Augustine rightfully reasoned.

6,304 posted on 09/15/2007 6:00:27 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; MarkBsnr
Dear Brother,here are a few links from New Advent to help you understand faith from the Catholic viewpoint

Humility
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/post?id=1870079%2C6304

Faith
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05752c.htm

The Rule of Faith
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05766b.htm

6,306 posted on 09/15/2007 9:29:13 AM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: HarleyD

OOPS, I gave you the wrong link .Here is the correct one

Humility

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07543b.htm


6,307 posted on 09/15/2007 9:31:58 AM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: HarleyD; stfassisi; MarkBsnr
How can we humble ourselves when we don't even believe in the first place?

That is the most arrogant statement I have heard so far! There are those who are poor in spirit who are not Christians.

6,311 posted on 09/15/2007 10:42:12 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: HarleyD
Sic. Ita. You got it!

IT's ALL gift. THe blisters are a gift. The swelling around the shins is a gift. THe totally insane idea of MY actually walking to raise money for MS research is a gift. My having the ginger to complete the walk is a gift. The road to walk on is a gift. All is gift. This is why, when you can't think of what you want to say to God, "Thank you," is ALWAYS good, and why a name for our RC hocus Pocus in "Eucharist." And as the old versions of the Gloria said "We give thanks to Thee for thy great glory." We cannot call upon God unless He gives the calling to us; we cannot be humble unless He gives us the humility. All is a great ocean of gift.

I tend to duck the free-well v. predestination (and the rest of it) debate because it just all seems like a gift to me. I would only add that once He gives it to us to float downstream, He begins to give it to us to swim downstream.

6,439 posted on 09/17/2007 8:13:30 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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