Perhaps this...
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." -- Matthew 10:28
So here we have Christ telling us that hell is an objective place, not the non-objective haze of some existential nothingness, but an actual place of being.
The interesting thing about this discussion of hell and whether or not God is omnipresent is that it was MarkBsnr whom you were first "correcting" by your "hell is just an illusionary state of deprivation" argument. Here's what Mark had to say, which sounds pretty literal to me (and correct)...
"According to Scripture, if one is in hell, "he shall be tormented with fire and sulfur . . . the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest" (Rev. 14:11). This is an "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41). Jesus tells his listeners of Lazarus and the rich man, where the rich man dies, and is "existing in torment . . . he sees . . . calls out . . . 'I am in anguish in this blazing fire'" (Luke 16:19-31). As a further illustration, Jesus stated that hell is likened to Gehenna. This "Valley of Hinnom" was located southeast of Jerusalem, and was used as a garbage dump where trash and waste were continuously burned day and night in a large fire. Jesus informs the listeners that hell is like this, "where the maggot does not die, and fire is not put out" (Mark 9:42-48). It is the place where the wicked are sent, and from this "everlasting fire" (Matt. 18:8) will come "weeping and the gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 8:12). Lastly, Revelation 20 calls hell a "pool of fire . . . [where] they will be tormented day and night, forever and ever"—all who are not in the book of life. So, if one's name is in the book of life, one enters heaven (Rev. 21:27). If it not in the book, then a literal hell awaits."
Amen, Mark. An objective hell, not a subjective state of mind, but a torment of mind, body and soul.
Either we are in communion with Him or we feel separated from Him. That separation is like knowing that God is next door but the doors to where He is are shut permanently. This is the Eastern Orthodox teaching
Wow. So according to you and the EO, God's wrath and eternal damnation are like Robin Williams' definition of Canada -- a loft apartment above a really great party?
Thanks, but I think I prefer Mark's Scriptural definition.
Or the Westminster Shorter Catechism...
Q. 143. What is hell?
A. A place of dreadful and endless torment.
Because if hell is something so subjective and vague, then so is heaven. But thank God, He has assured us that is not the case. Heaven is real and awaits all those who love Him.
Q. 145. What is heaven?
A. A glorious and happy place, where the righteous shall be forever with the Lord.
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." -- 1 Corinthians 2:9
Thus, heaven is not imaginary, but quantitatively more than our imaginings.
So is Hell I would assume.. since both realities will be in another paradigm/realm/dimension.. There will be a NEW heaven(s) and a NEW earth(Rev.).. Both may not be fleshly or soulish places but spiritual.. Precisely intimated by the verse above.. for "them that love him".. them that DON'T love him may be in for a BIG surprise also..
The disappointed ones in HELL may not be what you "GET/GOT" but what you've "MISSED".. Not that you(in hell) got some kind of torture from God, BUT that you have MISSED blessings that the human mind could/can not even conceive of NOW.. I Cor 2;9... That verse implicates many possible things..
Interesting discussion.. What is Heaven and Hell.. All mostly speculation I would admit.. The metaphorical last few chapters of Revelation(New Jerusalem) peak the imagination though.. And I believe go with this verse.. I Cor 2;9.. so they had to be metaphorical to describe them..
That is between Mark and his Church. His Church does not teach what his quote seems to suggest. I quoted from the Catechism. If he is saying what you claim he is saying, rather than jusr referencing, then he is also in conflict with his Pope. I doubt that Mark meant to say what you imply he said, but I will let him settle this issue.
The EOC does not know a wrathful God.
If by this you mean it has a specific location, coordinates in time and space, where on earth, or in the universe, do think it might be?
If not, what do you mean by "objective place"?
And hell is worse then our worse nightmares.