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To: MarkBsnr; fortheDeclaration
Mark: Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, some of Iran, Turkey - most of Asia Minor, the entire north and much of the west coast of Africa, up the Nile to Ethiopia, and Spain and Portugal were all conquered by the Moslems.

In 1526, Suleiman conquered southern Hungary, from his bases in Bulgaria, and three years later sailed up the Danube, conquering as he went. He laid siege to Vienna and was beaten off by winter and a coalition of forces. As they left, they maximized damage to the city and to the countryside.

In 1683, Vienna was again besieged and it took the combined might of all the West to finally push the Moslmes out of Central Europe. You friendly neighbourhood Turks.


So you don't believe FTD who says "The Crusades were not defensive wars against Islam"
4,710 posted on 08/28/2007 2:10:24 AM PDT by Cronos ("Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant" - Omar Ahmed, CAIR)
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To: Cronos

The Crusades were a series of military conflicts of a religious character waged by Christians during 1095–1291, most of which were sanctioned by the Pope in the name of Christendom.[1] The Crusades originally had the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the sacred “Holy Land” from Muslim rule and were originally launched in response to a call from the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire for help against the expansion of the Muslim Seljuq dynasty into Anatolia. This is ironic, as the crusades have now been compared to the Islamic jihad.[2][3]

The term is also used to describe contemporaneous and subsequent campaigns conducted through to the 16th century in territories outside the Levant[4], usually against pagans, those considered by the Catholic Church to be heretics, and peoples under the ban of excommunication[2] for a mixture of religious, economic, and political reasons.[5] Rivalries among both Christian and Muslim powers led also to alliances between religious factions against their opponents, such as the Christian alliance with the Sultanate of Rum during the Fifth Crusade. The traditional numbering scheme for the Crusades includes the nine major expeditions to the Holy Land during the 11th to 13th centuries. Other unnumbered “crusades” continued into the 16th century, lasting until the political and religious climate of Europe was significantly changed during the Renaissance and Reformation.

First Crusade 1096–1099
Main article: First Crusade
In March 1095 at the Council of Piacenza, ambassadors sent by Byzantine emperor Alexius I called for help with defending his empire against the Seljuk Turks. Later that year, at the Council of Clermont, Pope Urban II called upon all Christians to join a war against the Turks, promising those who died in the endeavor would receive immediate remission of their sins[9]. Crusader armies managed to defeat two substantial Turkish forces at Dorylaeum and at Antioch, finally marching to Jerusalem with only a fraction of their original forces. In 1099, they took Jerusalem by assault and massacred the population. As a result of the First Crusade, several small Crusader states were created, notably the Kingdom of Jerusalem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades


4,714 posted on 08/28/2007 3:26:18 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! - Lincoln)
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To: Cronos

Jewish community
Main article: History of the Jews and the Crusades

1250 French Bible illustration depicts Jews (identifiable by Judenhut) being massacred by CrusadersThough the Muslims in power at the time tried to protect the Jews in The Holy Land, the Crusaders’ atrocities against them in the German and Hungarian towns, later also in those of France, England, and in the massacres of Jews in Palestine and Syria have become a significant part of the history of anti-Semitism, although no Crusade was ever declared against Jews. These attacks left behind for centuries strong feelings of ill will on both sides. The social position of the Jews in western Europe was distinctly worsened, and legal restrictions increased during and after the Crusades. They prepared the way for the anti-Jewish legislation of Pope Innocent III and formed the turning-point in medieval anti-Semitism.

The crusading period brought with it many narratives from Jewish sources. Among the better-known Jewish narratives are the chronicles of Solomon Bar Simson and Rabbi Eliezer bar Nathan, “The Narrative of the Old Persecutions,” by Mainz Anonymous, and “Sefer Zekhirah,” and “The Book of Remembrance,” by Rabbi Ephraim of Bonn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades#Jewish_community

The achievement of preserving Christian Europe must not, however, ignore the eventual fall of the Christian Byzantine Empire, which was mostly caused by Fourth Crusade’s extreme aggression against Eastern Orthodox Christianity, largely at the instigation of the infamous Enrico Dandolo, the Doge of Venice and financial backer of the Fourth Crusade. The Byzantine lands had been a stable Christian state since the 4th century. After the Crusaders took Constantinople in 1204, the Byzantines never again had as large or strong a state and finally fell in 1453.

Taking into account the fall of the Byzantines, the Crusades could be portrayed as the defence of Roman Catholicism against the violent expansion of Islam, rather than the defence of Christianity as a whole against Islamic expansion. On the other hand, the Fourth Crusade could be presented as an anomaly. It is also possible to find a compromise between these two points of view, specifically that the Crusades were Roman Catholic campaigns which primarily sought to fight Islam to preserve Catholicism, and secondarily sought to thereby protect the rest of Christianity; in this context, the Fourth Crusade’s crusaders could have felt compelled to abandon the secondary aim in order to retain Dandolo’s logistical support in achieving the primary aim. Even so, the Fourth Crusade was condemned by the Pope of the time (Pope Innocent III) and is now generally remembered throughout Europe as a disgraceful failure.

Albigensian Crusade
Main article: Albigensian Crusade
The Albigensian Crusade was launched in 1209 to eliminate the heretical Cathars of Occitania (the south of modern-day France). It was a decades-long struggle that had much more to do with the concerns of northern France to extend its control southwards than it did with heresy. In the end, both the Cathars and the independence of southern France were exterminated.


4,715 posted on 08/28/2007 3:33:01 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! - Lincoln)
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To: Cronos

I try not to respond to inanities. Sometimes I just can’t help myself.

I suppose that the repulsion of the Moslems from Iberia would also be considered an offensive action for some as well. In that case, I would urge that they consider moving to Londonistan, Parisistan, Hamburistan, Dearbornistan, etc. in order to experience the sublime peace, charity and justice under the Caliphate, such as was experienced in Somalia, Afghanistan, Iran, and so on.


4,745 posted on 08/28/2007 7:18:58 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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To: Cronos

I try not to respond to inanities. Sometimes I just can’t help myself.

I suppose that the repulsion of the Moslems from Iberia would also be considered an offensive action for some as well. In that case, I would urge that they consider moving to Londonistan, Parisistan, Hamburgistan, Dearbornistan, etc. in order to experience the sublime peace, charity and justice under the Caliphate, such as was experienced in Somalia, Afghanistan, Iran, and so on.


4,746 posted on 08/28/2007 7:19:11 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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