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To: kosta50; irishtenor; MarkBsnr; D-fendr
FK: "AMEN Irishtenor! The Bible tells us in no uncertain terms that some are His children and some are not."

The Bible also tells us in no uncertain terms that God became Man to save the world and that His grace is given to all.

OK, then if we take the Church's interpretation then God failed in His mission BECAUSE some are His children and some are not. There's no other way around it.

The trouble is that there are passages that seem to contradict that, and therein lies the issue, just as some Arians and Gnostics and non-trinitarian Christians find that Christ says that "the Father is greater than I" and conclude that there is no Holy Trinity.

Sure, there are passages. But the greatest weight of the totality of scripture seems to be clear in teaching the Trinity. That is my interpretation of how the Spirit has led me.

John 1:12-13 : 12 Yet to all who received him

Well, it doesn't say "those who were forced to receive Him..." If I hand out gifts, only those who wish to receive them will receive them, unless I force them to receive them—in which case they didn't "receive" them, did they?

Yes, only those who want to receive Him will receive Him. No argument there. The point of the quote was to note that not all have the right to be children of God.

Mankind forgot God when Adam willfully sinned and fell from grace.

Yes, and so none are children of God until they receive Him.

1 John 3:10 : This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

Anyone who does not do what is "right?" And who is to say what is "right?" Everyone thinks he or she is right and has a "good" reason for doing and believing what he or she believes or does.

God is the only one to say what is right. And He does all through the scriptures, both in command and in example.

11,046 posted on 11/14/2007 7:30:07 PM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; irishtenor; MarkBsnr; D-fendr
OK, then if we take the Church's interpretation then God failed in His mission BECAUSE some are His children and some are not. There's no other way around it

It is a "failure" only if you define it that way. He saves those who come to Him, who return His love. He offers His blessings to everyone, to the righteous and the unrighteous. Is he wasting His time? Why do the unrighteous get His blessings?

Sure, there are passages. But the greatest weight of the totality of scripture seems to be clear in teaching the Trinity. That is my interpretation of how the Spirit has led me.

The Church teaches that the Son and the Spirit are homoousious (of one essence) with the Father. Do you believe that? Where in the Bible does it say, or even suggest that clearly? jesus says that "the Father is greater than I." Arians and unitarians understand this to be "evidence" of a lesser God, or not even a God. The Church understand that Christ was speakinhg in His human nature. It's not that obvious, FK.

Is the father the eternal source of the Son and the Spirit? Where does it say that?

Etc.

Yes, only those who want to receive Him will receive Him. No argument there

So, now you acknowledge free will?

Yes, and so none are children of God until they receive Him

By our fallen nature and not because God created us that way.

God is the only one to say what is right. And He does all through the scriptures, both in command and in example

We believe that if we do as Christ teaches us in the Gospels we will not stray into too much wrong. Mercy, forgivenss, loving your enemies, etc.

11,047 posted on 11/14/2007 8:01:30 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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