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To: irishtenor; kosta50; Gamecock; MarkBsnr
Your belief? God doesn’t have the power to save everyone, so he sends out the message hoping that some will choose believe. The others are lost and he is incapable of saving them because they do not believe.

Given their view that all people are God's children, my experience with the Apostolic beliefs is that they would say that while God is powerful enough to save anyone, He refuses to do so because paying homage to man's free will is far more important to God than saving His own children. God would rather see His own beloved child go to hell for eternity than intrude on his free will decision, EVEN INCLUDING that the child did not have the full information to make such a monumental decision. Too bad for the damned, but at least they can rest in hell knowing that God respected their independence and freedom of choice. :)

(And our view of God is called cruel! :)

Your god is weak. Your god sits there hoping that some will turn to him.

Yes, compared to our beliefs this is very true. Their version of God does not have the will to get what He wants. Rather, He hopes and wishes that independent man will choose Him, and He is deeply disappointed when man thwarts His will that all be saved. They believe that God offers advice and direction of course, but He still respects the sacred boundary of man's sovereignty. The final list in the Book of Life is determined ultimately by man. God just copies down the answers after He consults His foreknowledge. :)

Your god can’t communicate to you, so he has a hierarchy so that his message maybe will cascade down to the masses so they will believe.

I think they would say that God does communicate with the laity, but certainly not on any issues such as faith and morals on which the Church has taken a stand. That is the exclusive providence of the Magisterium/consensus patrum. Here of course there is a noteworthy divide between the Latins and the Orthodox.

Your god gives no assurance of salvation because he is too weak to do so.

That's exactly right because God chose relative weakness to give power to man's independence and free will. God "can't" give assurance to any man in scriptures because until the day he dies, man's destiny is in his own hands.

Your god has to trust you to have the wisdom and impetus to change your way so that you will believe in him.

Yes, God will not interfere. It is man's sovereign decision.

Overall, I'd say that your assessment was right in the ballpark with my understanding. :)

10,986 posted on 11/14/2007 2:46:12 AM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; irishtenor; Gamecock; MarkBsnr; D-fendr
Given their view that all people are God's children, my experience with the Apostolic beliefs is that they would say that while God is powerful enough to save anyone, He refuses to do so because paying homage to man's free will is far more important to God than saving His own children

Not really, FK. We only know that God's love does not force itself, but offers to all.

God would rather see His own beloved child go to hell for eternity than intrude on his free will

No true, FK. Especially coming from a Protestant who believes God creates some people specifically to go to hell "for His pleasure and Glory." The Bible is clear that God takes "no pleasure" in suffering. If we go to hell it's because we condemn ourselves by sinning and refusing to repent. We condemn ourselves by refusing God.

Their version of God does not have the will to get what He wants

Our view is that God has everything, and lacks nothing.

I think they would say that God does communicate with the laity, but certainly not on any issues such as faith and morals on which the Church has taken a stand

Well, how is this different from everyone making up his own rules and morality based on the "indwelling spirit" (which could just as well be a demon or even a mental illness)?

God "can't" give assurance to any man in scriptures because until the day he dies, man's destiny is in his own hands.

Maybe because the Bible tells us to "choose life?" (Deut 30:19, 2 Kin 18:32). God is telling us that we do have a say in our destiny. He offers us salvation. Ours is to accept it and give ourselves to Him.

Yes, God will not interfere. It is man's sovereign decision.

Baloney, FK. Isa 38:5 says otherwise. He hears our prayers and responds to those that are pure in intent.

10,995 posted on 11/14/2007 7:32:03 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper; irishtenor; kosta50; Gamecock

:::Given their view that all people are God’s children, my experience with the Apostolic beliefs is that they would say that while God is powerful enough to save anyone, He refuses to do so because paying homage to man’s free will is far more important to God than saving His own children. God would rather see His own beloved child go to hell for eternity than intrude on his free will decision, EVEN INCLUDING that the child did not have the full information to make such a monumental decision. Too bad for the damned, but at least they can rest in hell knowing that God respected their independence and freedom of choice. :):::

Not homage. Not a matter of indentured slavery. God reaches out with His Grace to all. If love is forced or coerced, it is not love. Freely given worship of Him versus the little windup monkey clapping cymbols together. And we, because God has not given us to know, do not know the final fate of any person. We do not presume. Neither Peter nor Paul knew their final destination; they only had the hope that Jesus gave to them.

:::Rather, He hopes and wishes that independent man will choose Him, and He is deeply disappointed when man thwarts His will that all be saved.:::

Are you not aware of the passages in the OT and NT where God does indicate despair that the people will not turn to Him?


11,054 posted on 11/15/2007 5:14:44 AM PST by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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