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To: MarkBsnr
Are you saying that man has no free will UNTIL the Holy Spirit comes into him? So the majority of men have no free will? Can you back this up biblically?

I’d say that the acknowledgement of God’s Grace is probably tantamount to accepting it, but that it can be rejected

We look at ‘saved’ at the Judgement, not here in life, where it is possible to backslide.


10,854 posted on 11/09/2007 1:05:17 PM PST by HarleyD (97% of all statistics are made up.)
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To: HarleyD

Let us examine this passage more closely:

:::his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness:::

Servant of one versus the other. No quantitative difference in the quality of the service. No support there.

:::ye were the servants of sin:::

Servants, not slaves.

:::ye became the servants of righteousness:::

Servants, not slaves.

:::for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness:::

Servant of one versus the other. No quantitative difference in the quality of the service. No support there.

:::ye were the servants of sin:::

Servants, not slaves.

:::But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God:::

Servants, not slaves.

Harley, the verses quoted lend no support to the supposition that man has no free will before the Holy Spirit invades him, since the words and the phrasing is EXACTLY the same for servant to God versus servant to sin.

They however, indicate that the ability of man to choose (servant = free will, slave = forced) is equal in either choosing evil or God. I’m afraid that these verses support the Catholic position on free will and repudiate the Reformed position.

I don’t see this as accidental, friend. I think that you’re testing the waters for current, temperature etc. :)


10,863 posted on 11/09/2007 2:39:47 PM PST by MarkBsnr (V. Angelus Domini nuntiavit Mariae. R. Et concepit de Spiritu Sancto.)
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