[Missey_Lucy_Goosey]

me: think where the easterns have difficulty here is the terminology of "place", which means a location in spacial dimensions, whereas they see the separation from God, ...... as one being of a purely spiritual condition, of "darkness" or the absence of Light. But in that construct, it is forgotten that the wicked will be resurrected to a real, physical body, which indeed does require a "place" since that body has spacial dimensions.

FK: That's right. The scriptures are clear on that. To build in allegory without scriptural support for their own position is forced. I am unsure what the Orthodox position is on glorified bodies, and whether they are real (literal) or not. But if they don't believe that Heaven is a place either, then I don't imagine they would believe in glorified bodies.

Prior to resurrection, the spirits are not located in spacial dimensions as we know them, so we speak of heaven in terms being in relationship with the Lord. After the resurrection, when our spirits are reunited with real, literal, material bodies prepared for eternity, immortal and in union with God and the saints, then heaven will be not only be relationship but also "place", as the Scriptures say;

Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells---2 Peter 3:13

Therefore, the renewal of creation, which is Redeemed from the curse of sin, is "heaven", as well as having the physical Christ within our midst, our most prized, and worthy Lord for whom we forsake all for, adoring Him to the utmost and desiring Him above all, with whom we will be with for all eternity. So, paradise lost, becomes paradise renewed, except better than what Adam had, for we will have the Living, Physical Christ with us.

[Forest Keeper]

Prior to resurrection, the spirits are not located in spacial dimensions as we know them, so we speak of heaven in terms being in relationship with the Lord. After the resurrection, when our spirits are reunited with real, literal, material bodies prepared for eternity, immortal and in union with God and the saints, then heaven will be not only be relationship but also "place", as the Scriptures say; ...

I really don't have a firm understanding of these issues, so let me ask you why Heaven only becomes a place after we receive our glorified bodies? Even if a disembodied spirit is, shall we say, "massless", why would that preclude a Heaven that is a place? For example, what happened to the bodies of Enoch, Elijah, Moses(?), and resurrected Jesus?