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To: Forest Keeper; HarleyD; Kolokotronis
Does this mean that in Orthodoxy, the spiritual and the physical are treated the same, or in fact ARE the same?

I am not sure where you get this idea or what you mean by this. God created man as body and soul. This is our "natural" state. Neither the body without the soul, nor the soul without the body is how God created us. We cannot separate the two and have man.

I think that the Latins and the Protestants see the issue of mortality as simply one of existence, not one of destination

The Orthodox deal with "nature" or essence, not with destinations, FK. Is man immortal by nature? If a soul is created immortal, then it is divine by nature. The Church always believed that man is made immortal by grace. Christ tells us "I am Life." We are given life in Christ. It is not a property we have by nature.

In addition, what makes you think that the damned will not know where they are?

What will they "know" separated from God who is everything and all? What will they "see" being separated from Light? What will they "feel" being separated from Love? The entire hope of Christianity rests on the knowledge that those who come to Christ will continue to live, see, feel, love. How will the condemned be any different from a rock? Is the prospect of being separated from everything for all eternity not torture itself?

After the judgment, how can anyone not know where he winds up?

I would worry about that before the Judgment.

10,377 posted on 11/04/2007 6:16:37 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; HarleyD; Kolokotronis
FK: "Does this mean that in Orthodoxy, the spiritual and the physical are treated the same, or in fact ARE the same?"

I am not sure where you get this idea or what you mean by this.

At physical death, the physical body returns to dust, meaning nothingness. The physical body is mortal. I was asking if you thought that the same thing happens to the condemned soul at physical death (or judgment) because you say it is also mortal.

Is man immortal by nature?

Spiritually, "Yes". Adam had an immortal soul when he was created. The fact that he sinned did not change that.

If a soul is created immortal, then it is divine by nature. The Church always believed that man is made immortal by grace.

Where does that rule come from? If you are made immortal by grace, do you then have the divine nature or essence? Of course not. I don't see the distinction.

We are given life in Christ. It is not a property we have by nature.

And while you make a true statement, we say that this has nothing to do with whether humans have immortal souls. Is not satan immortal in his condemnation? So is the human soul of the reprobate.

FK: "In addition, what makes you think that the damned will not know where they are?"

What will they "know" separated from God who is everything and all?

They will know THAT, plus the reality of their existence in hell.

What will they "see" being separated from Light? What will they "feel" being separated from Love?

I think it's Rev. 20 that tells us about the "Lake of Fire". In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, we are clearly told that the rich man was well aware of his surroundings. The condemned will feel whatever causes weeping and gnashing of teeth (e.g. fire).

How will the condemned be any different from a rock? Is the prospect of being separated from everything for all eternity not torture itself?

Rocks do not experience torture, so again I don't see how you can say this since it appears to clearly contradict.

10,378 posted on 11/04/2007 11:21:47 AM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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