Will the Pope's Pronouncement Set Ecumenism Back a Hundred Years? (Challenge to Apostolicity)

Progressive Theology ^ | July 07

[MarkBsnr]

I’m still waiting for examples of fabrication.

You take umbrage at the term robot slave; you do not appear to have supplied any evidence that the substance is not true. If you call it preprogrammed or predestined, with all of our actions set from the beginning of time, then I am forced to conclude that you object not to the substance, but to the appellation.

[Elsie]

Rumbling chuckle! ;^)

[Cronos]

Apparently he was talking about some group called the "CAlVISNISTS".

yup, that's the bunch of folks who believe in Calvin's little theory of the "elect"

[Elsie]

There are tons of cults out there based on Sola Scriptura as well as plenty of good churches; too.

There are also many 'cults' built on the Word and many traditions of man.

[Elsie]

Shepherds like Luther lead sheep astray.

And our Great Shepard gathers up those sheep - no matter WHERE He finds them.

[MarkBsnr]

Apparently the close examination of Calvinism and the number of contradictions that arise both within itself and even worse, when compared to the length and breadth of Scripture give rise to extremes of emotion.

And that can be useful, if we are to utilize this forum to reclaim the lost and straying sheep back to Christ. Our brethren who have been suckered by the Reformers need our help in regaining their senses and coming back to His Church.

[MarkBsnr]

A very insightful post. Thank you.

[MarkBsnr]

Yes, now don’t the Baptists believe that the baptism in the Holy Spirit comes first, with the water baptism afterward?

[MarkBsnr]

That is beyond the Church’s authority.

We may bind, but we may not Judge. That is for the Lamb.

[kosta50]

Now, when you and the rest of you religious types who reject Grace get to the Great White Throne Judgement, you will be judged for your works not your sins and you will see that will only get you sent to the Lake of Fire, no different than any other type of sinner

I have asked you before not to post to me. I do not care what your judgment is. Your next post is going to the Religion Moderator as abuse.

[MarkBsnr]

To whom much has been given, much will be expected.

The level of Judgement appears to be in concert with the level of talents that God has given us. Unless, of course, one bypasses the Judgement altogether.

[DungeonMaster]

The level of Judgement appears to be in concert with the level of talents that God has given us. Unless, of course, one bypasses the Judgement altogether.

It seems to me that a born again Christian has been judged at the Cross, but his works will still be judged. Some are Gold and Silver and some are stubble. Some people will have all of their works burned but they will come through.

[MarkBsnr]

Early church? Or later on, say, during the Middle Ages?

The folks in the early church was kinda busy avoiding being killed by lions in the arena, or being crucified by the civil authorities and similar pursuits.

[HarleyD]

Apparently the close examination of Calvinism and the number of contradictions that arise both within itself and even worse, when compared to the length and breadth of Scripture give rise to extremes of emotion.

I'm sorry since I have not follow this conversation but I find nothing contradictory about Calvinism. In fact, I have found the largest criticism on atheists and other stanch opponents of Calvinism websites is that they believe Calvinists think they have all the answers. In fact you will find atheists have more kind things to say about Catholics than Calvinists.

Now if we want to talk about contradiction we can talk about the fact that the Church admit they don't know what predestination is yet they say Calvin's interpretation is wrong, the Church says that God's grace is imparted through a wafer yet Protestants who don't participate in mass can still be Christians, the Church says that we are not "robots" yet the scriptures state we are "slaves to righteousness", the Church says the Pope is infallible yet Popes have rescinded "infallible" decrees by other Popes, the Church say that we don't know if we are elect yet Paul, Peter, John and others wrote to early Christians calling them the elect.

There is more but my fingers are tired.

[Cronos]

Those were Israelites, not Jews.

[Cronos]

True as far as Roman Catholic church history but that history is quite skewed and inaacurate.. suggest a better one.. Miller’s Church History.. http://www.the-tribulation-network.com/ebooks/millers/toc.htm

Miller's History is new "Revisionism" and is skewed and inaccurate, as opposed to Church history that is verifiable by sources within the Catholic Church, within the Orthodox Church and by impartial, historical sources, as opposed to any propagandist books

[Forest Keeper]

Then what is the philosophy that states that one man, undeserved, enjoys everlasting life in Heaven, and the next man, with exactly the same qualifications, will undergo everlasting torment in hellfire forever?

What constitutes "qualifications" from your side? I mean, I would think that an Apostolic would say that all are born with equal free will and an equal chance to choose God. But we know that environment is often a huge factor in the decision-making process of the later adult. So, one person is born into a loving Christian family and grows up properly instructed, then believes, and leads a wonderful Christian life and is saved. But the next person is abused by her father, who faked a Christian faith, and she is scarred for life, never coming to belief based on her experience. How does God compensate for this?

To answer your question, the "philosophy" behind this would simply be that the Bible is God's inspired and inerrant word. And, I have no idea why God chooses some and not others, when all are equally undeserving. Our view is based on the simple fact that it is what the Bible describes. God does not give us the "why" behind these choices that He makes. They simply serve His purpose somehow. It does not SEEM fair to us, but God does not owe us an explanation. God's ways are not our ways.

If the Bible had instead described a completely different system, then Dr. E., and Irishtenor, and Marlowe, and I, and all the rest of us would have said "OK, that's fine with us.". But He didn't, He just gave us what we have.

[xzins]

We Christians don’t believe in a Gnostic elitist selected elect.

Do you believe that God knew all who would be saved before He even created?

[MarkBsnr]

That’s an interesting concept. I haven’t run across that one, at least not put this way.

Could you explain it further? How would the entire born again population of humanity be judged at the Cross? Do you have some evidence of this?

[Cronos]

The educated people were extremely RARE

True -- but the common man DID speak in Latin, that's why the Romance languages have such common diction, vocabulary and grammar.