Will the Pope's Pronouncement Set Ecumenism Back a Hundred Years? (Challenge to Apostolicity)

Progressive Theology ^ | July 07

[irishtenor]

No, just tired of his follderall.

[hosepipe]

[.. Ok, so now you're saying that the entire Bible, OT and NT, was written in Hebrew? ..]

Also in Greek and several other languages, including Latin..

[hosepipe]

[.. So, let me get this straight. You're saying that all Jews before Christ were pagans. You're also saying that all Jews who didn't convert to Christianity during the time of Christ are pagans. You're also saying that all Jews after Christ are pagans and part of a "cult"?.. Is that what you're saying?.. ]

No.. Some Jews always were pagans.. i.e. God allowing the captivity's of Nebaneazar, Darius, Cyrus and others.. Some Jewish Kings were totally pagan.. as well as many of the "people".. Without Christ every human is a pagan.. Without a valid Ark and sacrifices Jewish religion is not any better than Buddhism, actually the Buddhists have a bit of an excuse.. the Jews do not..

[hosepipe]

True as far as Roman Catholic church history but that history is quite skewed and inaacurate.. suggest a better one..

Miller’s Church History.. http://www.the-tribulation-network.com/ebooks/millers/toc.htm

[hosepipe]

[.. Do you know what a Cargo cult is? And how those got started and where they're located? ..]

ALL religion is a kind of Cargo Cult.. Idol(s) with a cargo or cargos.. The one in the South Pacific with the Airplane as the Idol is indicative..

Jesus didn't come to create a religion but a family..
No idols, No cargo, just relatives..

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for those excellent Scriptures and for sharing your insights!

[Alamo-Girl]

Amen, dear sister in Christ! Thank you for the beautiful passage and all your insights and encouragements!

[hosepipe]

Maybe in all those areas a patois was spoken.. but not Latin except by the educated.. The educated people were extremely RARE.. A patois or mix was spoken in all the countrys with a "latin" basr language.. Much like in Haiti.. Where a mix of French and Spanish and English is spoken.. Same is true in several African countrys..

Latin was spoken almost universally by Romans and their assigns.. (puppets).. <<-WHom the "people" despised.. people don't like getting conquered..

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for your encouragements, dear sister in Christ! You are a treasure to me.

[hosepipe]

[.. Ok, so that's what you think happens in a Christian Church? Have you attended a Christian service? If you do, that will show that your ideas were wrong. ..]

I was quoteing someone else... Notice the ellipses..

[hosepipe]

[.. Ok, so you don’t believe in Church history, like the History of martyrs, etc. ? ..]

Foxes Book of Martyrs..
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/martyrs/index.htm

[hosepipe]

[.. Hosepipe, you're making baseless accusations. Mark has proven your statements to be false. ..]

So you're implying that the RCC can murder for other things (like heresy) but not for reading the bible?.. i.e. inquistion..

Example: One time in France the Roman Catholic Bishops(clergy) called a meeting with protestant clergy then cordoned off the building (with civil police) and them in it and burnt building to the ground..

Pretty nasty stuff.. and I'm not a Protestant.. or Roman Catholic..

[hosepipe]

[.. Oy vey. ..]

LoL.. Gevault..

[Cronos]

You must believe the witnesses testimony.. in these cases..

yup, like the witness testimony in the Salem witch trials.

Don't you find it weird that you believe some propagandists but refuse to believe the word of The Church Fathers who lived under persecution?

[D-fendr]

God said “here’s what I’m going to do...” and then he does it. The prophesy... God tells us. The fulfillment... He does it.

I understand. But could it not also be.. "Here's what Judas is going to do..."

IOW, that's it's prophesy does not necessarily infer causation and predestination.

[Cronos]

The Orthodox have beautiful icons

That is so true -- have any of you been to Westminster Cathedral in London? It was built in the 1800s and built in the Byzantine style -- the Crucifix is an icon and the Church interiors look like an Eastern Orthodox Church.

[DragoonEnNoir]

Just glancing back at some posts and I noticed this from you;

...formerly I had asked about things like frequency of prayer and actual physical worship amongst our Protestant brethren and to an individual, they all declined to contribute.

I suspect that the veneer of their worship is relatively thin, as is the rock of their faith. If they had something to gloat about, I suspect that the contributions would have been both frequent and voluminous.

I suspect that you get few contributions largely because the answer would glorify the man, rather than the God we serve ('we' meaning all followers of Christ Jesus). As you put it, to answer would be, “something to gloat about”.

We are not to gloat in our faith though, but to be humble and if we are to boast, to boast in Jesus Christ. To impinge on other’s faith because they have not answered your question does not lift your brother up and is highly unfair.

In general, I think the answers to your questions should be;
-We are to pray without cease, and to walk beside God each waking moment. I never walk closely enough though, and it is my constant prayer to walk more closely with God.
-Physical worship is not merely attending a church service in a passive manner.
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. (Ro 12:1-2).

Our physical worship should be to walk in obedience to God, seeking after His will and His ways in all we do. We all fall short of this though, and we should constantly be in prayer for our Brethren that they do not fall into temptation.

[Cronos]

The more faithful of the Protestants are swimming the Tiber or heading East. To me, it makes no difference.

That's true -- in fact, many Protestants have a "Papal" hang-over that blinds them to Catholicism. So, if they join the EO, that is good.

[Forest Keeper]

So then would you say that it is a man-made event, rather than a sacrament?

We use the word "ordinance" instead of sacrament, but I'm not aware of any significant difference. Baptism is commanded by God, so it can't be man-made.

Would it be like me wearing a crucifix - a man-made symbol of Christianity - rather than something significant in and of itself?

While I have nothing against someone wearing a crucifix, I don't think the two are comparable because God does not specifically command it. When we baptize we do so in specific obedience to God, just as with the Lord's Supper.

[D-fendr]

ALL religion is a kind of Cargo Cult

Certainly not your religion? So, it's another definition of religion that you must be referring to. I'm wondering what is it that makes religion not the type of religion you would be part of?

Is it any institutionalization that crosses the line for you? Or authority of some kind - any offices, preachers, etc? Is a congregation, in the usual sense, part of the bad definition of religion?

Would you consider Southern Baptist or the Episcopal Church "religions" in the perjorative sense?