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To: armydoc

So do you believe Jesus when He says:
John 6:53-57
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you ; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. HE WHO EATS MY FLESH AND DRINKS MY BLOOD ABIDES IN ME, AND I IN HIM. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.”

If you don’t believe Him regarding the Eucharist, then why did the Church Fathers?

“They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to Smyrnaeans, 7,1 (c. A.D. 110).

“It is good and beneficial to communicate every day, and to partake of the holy body and blood of Christ. For He distinctly says, ‘He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life.’ And who doubts that to share frequently in life, is the same thing as to have manifold life. I, indeed, communicate four times a week, on the Lord’s day, on Wednesday, on Friday, and on the Sabbath, and on the other days if there is a commemoration of any Saint.” Basil, To Patrician Caesaria, Epistle 93 (A.D. 372).

“For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.” Justin Martyr, First Apology, 66 (c. A.D. 110-165).

“[T]he bread over which thanks have been given is the body of their Lord, and the cup His blood...” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, IV:18,4 (c. A.D. 200).

“He acknowledged the cup (which is a part of the creation) as his own blood, from which he bedews our blood; and the bread (also a part of creation) he affirmed to be his own body, from which he gives increase to our bodies.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:2,2 (c. A.D. 200).

The Didache (Did-Ah-Key), or teaching of the Apostles, 9:1
Let no one eat or drink of the Eucharist with you except those who have been baptized in the Name of the Lord; for it was in reference to this that the Lord said, “Do not give that which is Holy to dogs.” Matthew 7:6

St. Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 22(Mystagogic 4)6, 350AD
“Do not, therefore, regard the Bread and the Wine as simply that; for they are, according to the Masters declaration, the Body and Blood of Christ.”

St. Gregory of Nyssa, The Great Catechism, 37, 383AD
“Rightly then, do we believe that the bread consecrated by the Word of GOD has been made over into the Body of GOD the Word.”

St. Ambrose of Milan, The Sacraments, 4:4:14, 390AD
“You may perhaps say: “My bread is ordinary.” But that bread is bread before the words of the Sacraments; where the consecration has entered in, the bread becomes the Flesh of Christ.”

St. John Chrysostom, Homilies on the First Corinthians, 24:4:7, 392AD
“When you see the Body of Christ lying on the altar, say to yourself, Because of this Body I am no longer earth and ash, no longer a prisoner but free...This is that Body which was blood-stained, which was pierced by a lance, and from which gushed forth those saving fountains, one of blood, the other of water, for all the world. This is the body which He gave us, both to hold in reserve and to eat, which was appropriate to intense love.”

St. Augustine of Hippo, Sermons, 227, 393AD
“The Bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the Word of GOD, is the Body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the Word of GOD, is the Blood of Christ.”

St. Cyril of Alexandria, Commentary on Matthew, 26:27, 428AD
“He states demonstratively: ‘This is My Body,’ and ‘This is My Blood’, lest you might suppose the things you see are a figure. Rather, by some secret of the all-powerful GOD the things seen are transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ, truly offered in a sacrifice in which we, as participants, receive the life-giving and sanctifying power of Christ.”

Macarius, Bishop of Magnesia, Apocriticus, 3:23, 400 AD
“Christ took the bread and the cup, each in similar fashion, and said, ‘This is My Body and this is My Blood’. Not a figure of His Body nor a figure of His Blood, as some persons of petrified mind are wont to rhapsodize, but in truth the Body and the Blood of Christ, seeing that His Body is from the earth, and the bread and wine are likewise from the earth. Holy Eucharist. The True Presence of Our Lord...”


346 posted on 07/18/2007 12:56:37 PM PDT by rbosque ("To educate a person in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." - Teddy Roosevelt)
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To: rbosque
>Let no one eat or drink of the Eucharist with you except those who have been baptized in the Name of the Lord; for it was in reference to this that the Lord said, “Do not give that which is Holy to dogs.” Matthew 7:6,

This is so far off from what the scripture says as to be laughable.Did you even read the passage?This makes no reference to communion.Jesus is saying that if someone is so evil as to totally reject God you should no longer continue give them what is Holy.Holy here refers to the Gospel.If you read the next sentence about don’t cast your pearls before swine it is further clarified.A pig would have no concept of a pearl and therefore it would be a total waste to cast a pearl before them.

348 posted on 07/18/2007 4:13:15 PM PDT by Blessed
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To: rbosque
So do you believe Jesus when He says: John 6:53-57 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you ; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. HE WHO EATS MY FLESH AND DRINKS MY BLOOD ABIDES IN ME, AND I IN HIM. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.” If you don’t believe Him regarding the Eucharist, then why did the Church Fathers?

I believe Jesus is using "eating His flesh and drinking His blood" as a metaphore for a deep, saving belief in Him. The same John passages speak of this action as being both necessary and sufficient for salvation. The only single action that the totality of scripture clearly states to be both necessary and sufficient for salvation is a belief in Jesus. Not even the Catholic Church teaches that taking the Eucharist is either necessary or sufficient for salvation.

Regarding the opinions of the church fathers, I give them the same weight as any other man's opinion- they are correct to the extent that they conform to scripture. The fact that they lived close to the time of Jesus does not mean they are necessarily correct- Peter himself showed gross misunderstanding several times despite being taught by Jesus Himself!
349 posted on 07/18/2007 5:44:04 PM PDT by armydoc
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