Posted on 07/11/2007 7:32:55 AM PDT by kellynla
Pope Benedict XVI reasserted the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released yesterday that says other Christian communities are either defective or not true churches and Catholicism provides the only true path to salvation.
The statement brought swift criticism from Protestant leaders. "It makes us question whether we are indeed praying together for Christian unity," said the World Alliance of Reformed Churches, a fellowship of 75 million Protestants in more than 100 countries.
"It makes us question the seriousness with which the Roman Catholic Church takes its dialogues with the reformed family and other families of the church," the group said in a letter charging that the document took ecumenical dialogue back to the era before the Second Vatican Council.
It was the second time in a week that Benedict has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church. On Saturday, Benedict revived the old Latin Mass — a move cheered by Catholic traditionalists but criticized by more liberal ones as a step backward from Vatican II.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
>And no, it is not by faith alone....”Even so faith if it has not works, is dead, being alone.” James 2:17And no, it is not by faith alone....”Even so faith if it has not works, is dead, being alone.” James 2:17<
This verse does not say works produce salvation.It says you have a dead faith if out of the gatitude for the grace God has shown you through salvation you do not produce works.Show me one sentance inthese verses that says works are neccesary for salvation rather than a evidence of salvation.
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
>It is the Catholic Church who interprets Scripture correctly.<
One question.Is salvation only available through the Catholic Church?
Well, we believe it is both faith, good works in Sanctifying Grace that are Necessary for Salvation
There are many examples for each. I just gave a sampling of “works”.
In the end, it is Jesus who says, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of Heaven; BUT HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER IN HEAVEN SHALL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.” Matt 7:21.
Now how can anyone DO the will of the Father without doing Good Works?
And the Church Fathers are in agreement...
“Whoever dies in his sins, even if he profess to believe in Christ, does not truly believe in Him, and even if that which exists without works be called faith, such faith is dead in itself, as we read in the Epistle bearing the name of James.” Origen, Commentary on John, 19:6 (A.D. 232).
“And in like manner, the Gentiles by faith in Christ prepare for themselves eternal life through good works.” Hippolytus, Commentary on Proverbs (ante A.D. 235).
Our great hope is salvation, even I though unworthy and a pathetic sinner, has a chance. Pope Benedict has only repeated what the Church believes, it is the ark of our salvation because it has all truth.
“Such as these have no power against the ark; for holy Noah received a commission, according to the word of the Lord, to secure it; as the Lord said unto him, ‘Thou shalt pitch it within and without’; that he might thereby point out the semblance of the holy church of God, which has that efficacy of pitch which repells pernicious and destructive and serpent-like doctrines. For where is the smell of pitch, there the snake is unable to remain.” Epiphanius, Panarion, 51 (A.D. 377).
“For this, I know, is the rock on which the church is built! This is the house where alone the paschal lamb can be rightly eaten. This is the ark of Noah, and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails.” Jerome, To Pope Damasus [regn. A.D. 366-384], Epistle 15:2 (A.D. 377).
Can you answer the question? Is their salvation apart from the Catholic church?
The Pope answered that for me. No.
So do you believe Jesus when He says:
John 6:53-57
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you ; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. HE WHO EATS MY FLESH AND DRINKS MY BLOOD ABIDES IN ME, AND I IN HIM. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me.”
If you don’t believe Him regarding the Eucharist, then why did the Church Fathers?
“They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again.” Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to Smyrnaeans, 7,1 (c. A.D. 110).
“It is good and beneficial to communicate every day, and to partake of the holy body and blood of Christ. For He distinctly says, ‘He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life.’ And who doubts that to share frequently in life, is the same thing as to have manifold life. I, indeed, communicate four times a week, on the Lord’s day, on Wednesday, on Friday, and on the Sabbath, and on the other days if there is a commemoration of any Saint.” Basil, To Patrician Caesaria, Epistle 93 (A.D. 372).
“For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.” Justin Martyr, First Apology, 66 (c. A.D. 110-165).
“[T]he bread over which thanks have been given is the body of their Lord, and the cup His blood...” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, IV:18,4 (c. A.D. 200).
“He acknowledged the cup (which is a part of the creation) as his own blood, from which he bedews our blood; and the bread (also a part of creation) he affirmed to be his own body, from which he gives increase to our bodies.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:2,2 (c. A.D. 200).
The Didache (Did-Ah-Key), or teaching of the Apostles, 9:1
Let no one eat or drink of the Eucharist with you except those who have been baptized in the Name of the Lord; for it was in reference to this that the Lord said, “Do not give that which is Holy to dogs.” Matthew 7:6
St. Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 22(Mystagogic 4)6, 350AD
“Do not, therefore, regard the Bread and the Wine as simply that; for they are, according to the Masters declaration, the Body and Blood of Christ.”
St. Gregory of Nyssa, The Great Catechism, 37, 383AD
“Rightly then, do we believe that the bread consecrated by the Word of GOD has been made over into the Body of GOD the Word.”
St. Ambrose of Milan, The Sacraments, 4:4:14, 390AD
“You may perhaps say: “My bread is ordinary.” But that bread is bread before the words of the Sacraments; where the consecration has entered in, the bread becomes the Flesh of Christ.”
St. John Chrysostom, Homilies on the First Corinthians, 24:4:7, 392AD
“When you see the Body of Christ lying on the altar, say to yourself, Because of this Body I am no longer earth and ash, no longer a prisoner but free...This is that Body which was blood-stained, which was pierced by a lance, and from which gushed forth those saving fountains, one of blood, the other of water, for all the world. This is the body which He gave us, both to hold in reserve and to eat, which was appropriate to intense love.”
St. Augustine of Hippo, Sermons, 227, 393AD
“The Bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the Word of GOD, is the Body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the Word of GOD, is the Blood of Christ.”
St. Cyril of Alexandria, Commentary on Matthew, 26:27, 428AD
“He states demonstratively: ‘This is My Body,’ and ‘This is My Blood’, lest you might suppose the things you see are a figure. Rather, by some secret of the all-powerful GOD the things seen are transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ, truly offered in a sacrifice in which we, as participants, receive the life-giving and sanctifying power of Christ.”
Macarius, Bishop of Magnesia, Apocriticus, 3:23, 400 AD
“Christ took the bread and the cup, each in similar fashion, and said, ‘This is My Body and this is My Blood’. Not a figure of His Body nor a figure of His Blood, as some persons of petrified mind are wont to rhapsodize, but in truth the Body and the Blood of Christ, seeing that His Body is from the earth, and the bread and wine are likewise from the earth. Holy Eucharist. The True Presence of Our Lord...”
>The Pope answered that for me. No.<
You have been throwing around a lot of insults about people not knowing Catholic doctrine and making up their own.
I would suggest you check out the official Catholic Website and talk to your Priest because that is not what the Pope said.Don’t feel bad that often happens when people fail to ask the Holy spirit to reveal God’s word and istead base their theology on what they think someone else said.That is why Peter said Scriptur was a “more sure word”
From the Vatican
The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.
It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.
This is so far off from what the scripture says as to be laughable.Did you even read the passage?This makes no reference to communion.Jesus is saying that if someone is so evil as to totally reject God you should no longer continue give them what is Holy.Holy here refers to the Gospel.If you read the next sentence about don’t cast your pearls before swine it is further clarified.A pig would have no concept of a pearl and therefore it would be a total waste to cast a pearl before them.
So I insult people when I speak the truth? So be it. I certainly don’t care what Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell or any other protestant says, why should you care what the Catholic Church says? I have certainly been told I am going to hell from a protestant at an airport in Wisconsin. Does it bother me? No.
And yes people do make up their own doctrines, why so many protestant churches if they all came to the truth independantly? To which Church does the Holy Spirit speak to? They can’t all have the truth if they teach different things. This is the fallacy of sola scriptura.
Even Luther believed that...
“If Christ had not entrusted all power to one man (The Pope), the Church would not have been perfect because there would have been no order. Each one would have been able to say he was led by the Holy Spirit. This is what the heretics did, each one setting up his own principal. In this way, as many churches arose as there were heads. Christ therefore wills in order that all may be assembled in one unity that his power be exercised by one man to whom also he commits it. Wherefore, whoever breaks away from this unity, and this order of the power, let him not boast of his great enlightenment or his wonderful works.”
Martin Luther, prior to his break with the Catholic Church
“There are as many sects now and beliefs as there are heads. This fellow will have nothing to do with baptism. Another denies the sacrament. A third believes that there is another world between this and the last day. Some teach that Christ is not God. Some say this, Some say that. There is no rustic so rude, but that if he dreams or fancies anything, it must be the whisper of the Holy Spirit and he himself must be a profit.”
Martin Luther, 1525, 7 years after his break with the Catholic Church
As far as Salvation is concerned, I stand corrected,
The Catholic Church states in CCC 846; Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 14), there are exceptions for salvation, and it is possible in some circumstances for people to be saved who have not been fully initiated into the Catholic Church (CCC 847).
But the same Fathers who declare the normative necessity of being Catholic also declare the possibility of salvation for some who are not Catholics.
These can be saved by what later came to be known as “baptism of blood” or “ baptism of desire”
The Fathers likewise affirm the possibility of salvation for those who lived before Christ and who were not part of Israel, the Old Testament People of God.
However, for those who knowingly and deliberately (that is, not out of innocent ignorance) commit the sins of heresy (rejecting divinely revealed doctrine) or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a schismatic church), no salvation would be possible until they repented and returned to live in Catholic unity.
Ignatius of Antioch (110 AD)
“Be not deceived, my brethren: If anyone follows a maker of schism [i.e., is a schismatic], he does not inherit the kingdom of God; if anyone walks in strange doctrine [i.e., is a heretic], he has no part in the passion [of Christ]. Take care, then, to use one Eucharist, so that whatever you do, you do according to God: For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup in the union of his blood; one altar, as there is one bishop, with the presbytery and my fellow servants, the deacons” (Letter to the Philadelphians 3:3–4:1 [A.D. 110]).
There are many more examples. But you don’t seem to be interested in what the Church Fathers said. They are important because it shows an apostolicity.
John 6:53-57 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you...
The Lord thinks so. So do I.
Good question.
It sounds like a question of what it really means to eat his flesh and drink his blood.
Christ gave the keys to Peter, giving Him the power to bind and to loosen. But the Church believe God’s mercy is greater than we know (thankfully). It’s called ‘baptism of desire’. Think of the good thief on the cross, He was saved without it. The Church also believes that God takes care of those who have never heard of Him. Like some guy living in Outer Mongolia. Ulimately, God is still the judge, only God knows what is in men’s hearts.
The Cathoic Church has declared that salvation is through grace. But the Sacraments such as Baptism, Reconcilliation, the Holy Eucharist are instituted by Jesus to help us in our journey so they are essential. Jesus was baptised by John, Jesus instituted the Mass at the last supper. They are not man-made. They provide the graces we need to withstand sin and keep us grounded to the laws of God. Good works are needed because they are ‘faith’ in action, they are acts of mercy and Jesus calls us- such as the parable of the good Samaritan. He commands us to “do likewise”. As St. James wrote, “not by faith alone”.
I am a terrible sinner and I fly to the mercy of God through His sacraments and I am grateful for them. They are gifts we need and should not reject them.
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