Posted on 07/10/2007 6:55:28 PM PDT by indcons
Pope Benedict XVI declared yesterday that Christian denominations other than his own were not true churches and their holy orders have no value.
Protestant leaders immediately responded by saying the claims were offensive and would hurt efforts to promote ecumenism.
Roman Catholic- Anglican relations are already strained over the Church of England's plans to ordain homosexuals and women as bishops. The claims came in a document, from a Vatican watchdog which was approved by the Pope.
It said the branches of Christianity formed after the split with Rome at the Reformation could not be called churches "in the proper sense" because they broke with a succession of popes who dated back to St Peter.
As a result, it went on, Protestant churches have "no sacramental priesthood", effectively reaffirming the controversial Catholic position that Anglican holy orders are worthless.
The document claimed the Catholic church was the "one true church of Christ".
Pope Benedict's commitment to the hardline teaching comes days after he reinstated the Mass in Latin, which was sidelined in the 1960s in an attempt to modernise.
The timing of the announcement fuelled speculation that the pontiff - regarded as an arch-conservative before his election in 2005 - is finally beginning to impose his views on the Catholic Church.
The Vatican said it was restating the position set out by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 2000 in a document called Domine Jesus because theologians continued to misunderstand it.
At that time, Anglican leaders from around the world made their anger felt by snubbing an invitation to join Pope John Paul II as he proclaimed St Thomas More the patron saint of politicians.
Bishop Wolfgang Huber, head of the Evangelical Church in Germany, said the Vatican document effectively downgraded Protestant churches and would make ecumenical relations more difficult.
He said the pronouncement repeated the "offensive statements" of the 2000 document and was a "missed opportunity" to patch up relations with Protestants.
Explain the code to me. I’m “DaVinci Code” deficient.
If that wasn't meant as a pun, I'm stealing the phrase to make it one.
James 2:14-26 (King James Version)
14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
******************* what is "faith" - belief in something. We are reminded that even the devils have faith in Jesus - i.e., believes He is - So, are the devils 'saved"? I think not
You made a joke equating the Pope with a woman’s cervix! Oh, hahahahahahaha! That’s sooooo funny.
Grow up.
"841 - The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
That always cracks me up. The RCC actually prefers the Christ-denying muslims to each and every Protestant in spite of the fact we share a Trinitarian Christian faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
No wonder JPII kissed that satanic book. It was written by those in "first place."
Remove the commas (because there are none in the Greek) and reread that passage: ‘What doth it profit my brethren’ stands out and is verified by the meaning conveyed in the text ... a man’s words don’t feed or cloth ‘my brethren’, works do that.
I don't think that's what he said. The charge against the Orthodox & Oriental Churches isn't their lack of legitimate apostolic succession.
+Mark wasn't one of the 12 Apostles, but he is named as the founder of the Church in Alexandria, one of the original 5 Patriarchies. +Mark was one of the 70 or 72, actual number depends on source used. Many of the other 70 (72) were also Bishops, I believe during the Age of the Apostles.
The Oriental Churches claim descent from +Thomas & +Bartholomew, two of the original twelve. The Catholic & Orthodox Church may not like where that descent took the Oriental Church, but they've never tried to claim the Oriental Church lacks legitimate apostolic succession.
Meanwhile, many of the twelve didn't seem to have any "seat" to pass down in the way that the Catholic Church claims for +Peter's "seat". +John was the longest surviving Apostle & he never seems to have held a "seat". +Peter seems to have also held the "seat" in Antioch & Antioch isn't second in line of the hierarchy, +Andrew's "seat" in Constantinople is. We have three instances of "legit seats passed down" from exactly three of the twelve Apostles & no "legit" seats held by the other nine.
Paul certainly thought so, for example - condescendingly - and referred to James the Just, John and Peter as the "so called Pillars of the Church"
If He were, the last two chapters of Revelation would assign superior/inferior positions to the foundation stones and gates of the New Jerusalem. Moses, Abraham, David, Mary, Peter, John et al - would be mentioned, etc.
Only Jesus is Named - as it should be.
To God be the glory!
Thanks. I didn't get it before. Thanks for explaining it.
s>I think that there is more to the story here. Many people who read the Bible believe that once Abraham sent Hagar and Ishmael away that there was no more contact. The traditions of the Muslim world tell of Abraham and Ishmael building altars together in Mecca. This in fact may be true. The Old Testament was a record kept by the descendent's of Issac and I don't think they were interested at all in preserving anything other than their own story. We do get a clue though in Genesis 25:9.
XS>And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah...
This scripture supports the view that there was indeed contact between Abraham and Ishmael throughout Abraham's life. How else could Ishmael have known his father had died? If they did build altars in Mecca and elsewhere as the Muslim traditions hold then I think you can make a case that they did worship the same God.
188 posted on 07/11/2007 12:23:58 PM MDT by sandude
Muslim tradition is like all Man's tradition; suspect
b'shem Yah'shua
and needs to be measured against the Holy Word of YHvH.
Now that you know, I trust that you will refrain from posting this section of the catechism in a misleading way again.
AMEN! AMEN!
Thx 4 the encouragement, dear Sister N Christ.
Indeed, God is no respecter of persons.
If He were, the last two chapters of Revelation would assign superior/inferior positions to the foundation stones and gates of the New Jerusalem. Moses, Abraham, David, Mary, Peter, John et al - would be mentioned, etc.
Only Jesus is Named - as it should be.
= = =
Excellent points. Thx.
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