Protestants aren't proper Christians, says Pope

Daily Mail ^ | 11th July 2007 | SIMON CALDWELL

[indcons]

Pope Benedict XVI declared yesterday that Christian denominations other than his own were not true churches and their holy orders have no value.

Protestant leaders immediately responded by saying the claims were offensive and would hurt efforts to promote ecumenism.

Roman Catholic- Anglican relations are already strained over the Church of England's plans to ordain homosexuals and women as bishops. The claims came in a document, from a Vatican watchdog which was approved by the Pope.

It said the branches of Christianity formed after the split with Rome at the Reformation could not be called churches "in the proper sense" because they broke with a succession of popes who dated back to St Peter.

As a result, it went on, Protestant churches have "no sacramental priesthood", effectively reaffirming the controversial Catholic position that Anglican holy orders are worthless.

The document claimed the Catholic church was the "one true church of Christ".

Pope Benedict's commitment to the hardline teaching comes days after he reinstated the Mass in Latin, which was sidelined in the 1960s in an attempt to modernise.

The timing of the announcement fuelled speculation that the pontiff - regarded as an arch-conservative before his election in 2005 - is finally beginning to impose his views on the Catholic Church.

The Vatican said it was restating the position set out by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 2000 in a document called Domine Jesus because theologians continued to misunderstand it.

At that time, Anglican leaders from around the world made their anger felt by snubbing an invitation to join Pope John Paul II as he proclaimed St Thomas More the patron saint of politicians.

Bishop Wolfgang Huber, head of the Evangelical Church in Germany, said the Vatican document effectively downgraded Protestant churches and would make ecumenical relations more difficult.

He said the pronouncement repeated the "offensive statements" of the 2000 document and was a "missed opportunity" to patch up relations with Protestants.

[Augustinian monk]

“Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God of Abraham.

How do you come to this understanding?”

It gives us warm fuzzies all over.

[maine-iac7]

If you're only referring to an unbroken line of bishops beginning with the original Apostles, ok, sure. However, I'm not sure how that causes a non-Catholic to be "improper"...

News - Peter was NOT the lead Apostle after the crucification

[maine-iac7]

Really? I had no idea the Pope lived in such luxury as you claim

Can you be serious?

[LucyJo]

"My second thought was that I’m glad that who is or isn’t a ‘proper Christian’ isn’t a choice of the pope, that decision is God’s."

The first thought here! : )

[maine-iac7]

He simply said that the only legitimate apostolic succession rests with the Roman Catholic Church.

Who was the lead Apostle after the Crucification?

[maine-iac7]

he IS the valid successor to the Apostles,

Starting with whom?

Who was the frist head Apostle after Christ?

[Bainbridge]

Well my Roman Catholic brother -in-law told someone, in my earshot, that “ oh no she is not Catholic, she is a Christian”. So, tell it to your non-separated brethren!

[Bainbridge]

Some of the hard core types here subscribe to the beliefs of Hilaire Belloc, a last century French Catholic supremacist.
He contended that Protestantism and Muhammadanism are both just heretical deviations of the Truth.
One has to wonder how much of that thinking is also Ratzingers.

[Alex Murphy]

Some of the hard core types here subscribe to the beliefs of Hilaire Belloc, a last century French Catholic supremacist. He contended that Protestantism and Muhammadanism are both just heretical deviations of the Truth.

Only some???? ROTFL!

[Bainbridge]

Oh, well a scientist! That is a whole other religion in itself!

[maine-iac7]

Jesus founded His Church with Peter as its head to be kept and transmitted through apostolic succession

psst - Peter was NOT the lead Apostle after the crucifiction =

That guy on the right was - and he didn't die until 62 AD

This iconic painting, done back when you could become a human torch for going against the church, was one of those 'coded message' paintings...

[JRochelle]

I am no fan of any church who claims to be the one true church.

I choose to put faith in God, not any man dressed in robes.

[jude24]

Well my Roman Catholic brother -in-law told someone, in my earshot, that “ oh no she is not Catholic, she is a Christian”. So, tell it to your non-separated brethren!

It's just as ignorant coming from his mouth.

[maine-iac7]

I choose to put faith in God, not any man dressed in robes.

;o)

And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,...And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation(Mark)

[Bainbridge]

As you all are fond of pointing out the many types of Protestants, I would submit that there are just as many variations on Roman Catholicism. In fact, there are those who claim to be RC that believe virtually nothing of traditional, "small o" orthodox Christianity. And yet, you would maintain that they are all, still, at least in the One True Church. Kinda makes it a magic institution though as just being "in it" can provide salvation.

[Claud]

Claud, where the rubber meets the road is Jesus saying that those who worship must worship in Spirit and in Truth. Those who teach obvious, made-up UNTRUTH cannot be the true Church,

Yes indeed, and that is EXACTLY what this document is saying. Only you think that the Reformation doctrines of the 16th century are the pure Gospel, unalloyed and uncorrupted....and we think (with better reason IMHO) that those doctrines are exactly the kind of made-up untruth that you condemn.

But for *where we think the Truth to lie*, we are in perfect agreement.

[Alamo-Girl]

That settles it! The Pope says that none of you are proper Christians.

LOLOL! There are also people who say I'm just a figment of their imagination. That doesn't bother me either.

Moreover, if we Christians are falsely accused for our testimony in Jesus Christ, it heaps eternal blessings upon us.

Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. - Matt 5:11-12

So, "thank you" to everyone who interpreted Pope Benedict's remarks to mean that we who are not of the Roman Catholic Church are somehow, second class Christians!

[Campion]

If you're only referring to an unbroken line of bishops beginning with the original Apostles, ok, sure. However, I'm not sure how that causes a non-Catholic to be "improper"...

I think the word "improper" is an interpolation by the Daily Mail writer, not the Pope's actual word.

[Campion]

As usual, your analysis is "on the money".

What I find more interesting is that this suggests a little fuzziness around the edges of extra ecclesium nulla salus - you don't, strictly speaking, need to be a communicant in the Roman or Eastern churches to be a Christian.

Correct. Anyone who is validly baptized (and the vast majority of Protestant baptisms would count as valid) would be considered to be a Christian.

As far as EENS is concerned, everyone who is saved will be saved by being incorporated into Christ's one church. There's no Baptist heaven or Methodist heaven or Lutheran heaven, there's only Catholic (or catholic or universal) heaven.

(Disunity is always either sin or the consequence of sin, and heaven means being cleansed from all sin and all of its consequences, hence, there is no disunity in heaven.)

How, exactly, that works out in an individual case is something we'll have to leave up to God.

[wolfinator]

I’d call this a papal smear.