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To: Greg F

What about them? For someone who is so hostile towards Mormonism, you don’t seem to realize the faith has a tiered eschatology that is a lot more charitable and humane than others who condemn the majority of humanity to endless torture in hell. Anyone who professes faith in Christ and lives in accordance with his wishes has salvation - he or she will go to heaven. However, those who want to receive the fullness of God’s blessings, which confers divine sonship by Grace (i.e., exaltation, becoming Gods), will need to join his church, receive all the necessary ordinances, and maintain faithfulness until the end. These select few move on to the next stage of evolution so to speak.

Everyone will have a chance to be exalted. There are untold millions of the righteous who will refuse, and prefer to stay where they are, enjoying companionship with Christ in heaven (what we call the Terrestial Kingdom). Whatever you consider heaven to be - the most wonderful place imaginable - that’s the Terrestrial Kingdom. A place of eternal bliss.

The Celestial Kingdom is higher and different - it is also a place of eternal bliss but it is a place that allows eternal progression. Those eligible to be exalted develop, grow, and metamorphoses into replicas of the exalted Christ. They receive both the blessings of divinity as well as the responsibility that goes with it. To say nothing about the pain of seeing one’s spirit children rebel and suffer as well as the fecund joy when they succeed and are happy themselves.

Lookit, if you don’t want to be exalted, who’s forcing you? You don’t have to join the Mormon church in order to be saved and go to heaven. Stay where you are, have faith in Christ and live righteously. You will be judged and be blessed with eternal bliss in heaven. Why get upset just because we call this heaven the Terrestrial Kingdom and believe in the Celestial Kingdom and exaltation?

As for those who refuse to accept Christ but live righteously, they will also go to a heaven, but the Telestial Kingdom, a lower heaven where they will not associate with Christ. Frankly, I don’t see what the big deal is if they go to a heaven and enjoy eternal bliss - if they rejected Christ when they had a chance; why would they want to live with him for all eternity? At least we don’t condemn the righteous unbeliever to unending torture in hell.

Read what I wrote about the apostasy - it simply means loss of genuine authority. It doesn’t mean those belonging to apostate churches are all evil and will be punished for all eternity.

Lastly, Mormonism believes God created this entire universe but he himself originated from an ancestral universe, which originated from an earlier universe, ad infinitum. The universes and “Gods” (all-good entities capable of manipulating reality and create universes according to their desires) stretch back into infinity. IOW, it’s an infinitely long chain without beginning and without end.

Please read what I wrote on the subject for further clarification http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/bicycleroad/21/id76.htm


556 posted on 07/10/2007 2:42:33 PM PDT by Edward Watson (Fanatics with guns beat liberals with ideas)
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To: Edward Watson

No creator, endless universes, back in time infinitely. Atheism. Wrap as many words around it as you like but you’ve been fooled about the nature of God. I can breed cattle and give them a place to live with shade and trees and water. I’m not the cow’s God. See the Book of Daniel, when even a beast looked upward to the true God who commands ALL things.


564 posted on 07/10/2007 2:58:30 PM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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To: Edward Watson; Alamo-Girl; aMorePerfectUnion; Revelation 911; greyfoxx39; Greg F; Elsie; Enosh; ...
We can read what you wrote here at FR and see you are serving the spirit of antichrist: "As for those who refuse to accept Christ but live righteously, they will also go to a heaven ..." Edward Watson, clueless Mormonism Apologist. You cannot live righteously without the Spirit indwelling, Ed. Didn't you know? You cannot live one day righteously without the Spirit of God, Ed, that's why you need a Savior, need His Atonement, His redeeming work. You cannot reject that Atonement and live in such a way as to be righteous before a Holy God.

If you refuse to accept Christ, there is no other Salvation because only by the wooing of the Holy Spirit can you have the opportunity to accept or refuse Christ, thus if you refuse that which the Holy Spirit brings to your soul you have committed the unpardonable sin of rejecting God's Salvation. There is no other Salvation, no water baptism by proxy, no other savior. The spirit of antichrist proclaims exactly what you spewed. May God have mercy upon your immortal soul, Ed. You are beyond heresies now, you are blaspheming what Jesus taught and the Spirit gave witness in the New Testament.

577 posted on 07/10/2007 3:33:08 PM PDT by MHGinTN (You've had life support. Promote life support for those in the womb.)
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To: Edward Watson
Your words......

Despite this, I firmly believe it’s the true church and if it isn’t, then there is no “true church” on the earth, and probably no God either.

Then this post...and your words again.

Lookit, if you don’t want to be exalted, who’s forcing you? You don’t have to join the Mormon church in order to be saved and go to heaven. Stay where you are, have faith in Christ and live righteously

Wait a minute......are you really saying, us mere Christians will not be exalted in God's eyes?

And to top it off....if Mormonism is false..then there's no God?

BTW, is there only one God?

596 posted on 07/10/2007 4:06:33 PM PDT by Osage Orange (“To call illegal aliens, undocumented workers, is like calling drug dealers unlicensed pharmacists.”)
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To: Edward Watson
As for those who refuse to accept Christ but live righteously, they will also go to a heaven, but the Telestial Kingdom, a lower heaven where they will not associate with Christ.

Being cut off from Christ is hell Edward not heaven. A life without anything good from the hand of God ever. Mormon's call hell heaven. That is a big problem.

614 posted on 07/10/2007 5:40:46 PM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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To: Edward Watson
Read what I wrote about the apostasy - it simply means loss of genuine authority.
Oh?  Have we de-defined the term?
 
 
 
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself adelivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I bsaw two cPersonages, whose brightness and dglory defy all description, estanding above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My fBeloved gSon. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to ainquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those bprofessors were all ccorrupt; that: “they ddraw near to me with their lips, but their ehearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the fcommandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the gpower thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself alying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, bmother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” 

 
It doesn’t mean those belonging to apostate churches are all evil and will be punished for all eternity.
 
 Have we now changed our attitude about the 'other' Christians?

629 posted on 07/11/2007 5:02:05 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Edward Watson
For someone who is so hostile towards Mormonism, you don’t seem to realize the faith has a tiered eschatology that is a lot more charitable and humane than others who condemn the majority of humanity to endless torture in hell.

HOSTILE?

HERE's hostility!!

 

Matthew 7:13-15
 13.  "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
 14.  But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
 15.  "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
 

Matthew 10:28
  Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
 

Matthew 18:9
   And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
 

Matthew 23:15
   "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
 

Matthew 23:33
   "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 

Mark 9:47-48
 47.  And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,
 48.  where "`their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.'
 

Luke 16:22-31
 22.  "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried.
 23.  In hell,  where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.
 24.  So he called to him, `Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
 25.  "But Abraham replied, `Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.
 26.  And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
 27.  "He answered, `Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house,
 28.  for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
 29.  "Abraham replied, `They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
 30.  "`No, father Abraham,' he said, `but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
 31.  "He said to him, `If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"  (oh yeah; Joseph Smith, too! Remember: HE would not condemn you to this place!)
 

2 Peter 2:1-12
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute  (Ya think???)
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
 4.  For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,  putting them into gloomy dungeons  to be held for judgment;
 5.  if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
 6.  if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
 7.  and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
 8.  (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
 9.  if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
 10.  This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature  and despise authority.   Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
 11.  yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
 12.  But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.

630 posted on 07/11/2007 5:11:58 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Edward Watson
Everyone will have a chance to be exalted. There are untold millions of the righteous who will refuse, and prefer to stay where they are, enjoying companionship with Christ in heaven (what we call the Terrestial Kingdom). Whatever you consider heaven to be - the most wonderful place imaginable - that’s the Terrestrial Kingdom. A place of eternal bliss.

The Celestial Kingdom is higher and different - it is also a place of eternal bliss but it is a place that allows eternal progression. Those eligible to be exalted develop, grow, and metamorphoses into replicas of the exalted Christ. They receive both the blessings of divinity as well as the responsibility that goes with it. To say nothing about the pain of seeing one’s spirit children rebel and suffer as well as the fecund joy when they succeed and are happy themselves.

Lookit, if you don’t want to be exalted, who’s forcing you? You don’t have to join the Mormon church in order to be saved and go to heaven. Stay where you are, have faith in Christ and live righteously. You will be judged and be blessed with eternal bliss in heaven. Why get upset just because we call this heaven the Terrestrial Kingdom and believe in the Celestial Kingdom and exaltation?

As for those who refuse to accept Christ but live righteously, they will also go to a heaven, but the Telestial Kingdom, a lower heaven where they will not associate with Christ.

 

 

I do wish you would make up your mind!

632 posted on 07/11/2007 5:14:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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