On some denominations views of relics

self | 6/22/07 | self

[Secret Agent Man]

Okay, so I am bringing up the topic of relics in use by certain Christian denominations.

Just recently this denomination has talked about the serious necessity to start a campaign to get 80,000 medallions out. they are doing this as a means to deal with evil, protect the wearer, and bind the power of Satan, like the medallions themselves are talismans have the power within them to do this.

In the article in question, the writer does not ever refer to Christ's power as being the thing that makes the medallion 'work', or Christ being the source of their spiritual powers. He always talks about THE MEDALLION (IT) as being the thing in and of itself having the power to do it.

I quote from the article (Capital emphasis mine):

"IT is exorcistic and strengthens souls who are tempted. THE MEDAL, as it is known today, was first made in 1880 by the Benedictines of Monte Casino to celebrate the 1400th anniversary of Saint Benedict’s birth. Mindful of THE MEDAL'S exorcistic powers, ANF hopes THEY (the medals) will protect Public Square Rosary participants from attacks of the devil."

In fact nowhere does the author evern mention or even tangentially allude to Christ and His power that protects all Christians.

Now the group that produces these medals states quite plainly they believe Christ's power works through the medals. However, the way this article was written is totally 180 degrees from what the order says about them. You would never get the impression from reading this article that it is Christ's power working through the medal - the impression you get from reading the article is that the medals themselves are able to protect you, without any mention of God's power being behind them. This piece completely portrays the MEDAL as the key to protection and casting demons out of people.

The larger question is whether medals are even needed at all. It is mentioned these medals are exorcistic. Christians have the Holy Spirit living inside them, along with Jesus Christ. There is no way for a true Christian to be demon possessed when the Holy Spirit and Christ are living in you. The unsaved/unbelievers are open to demon possession, but not true Christians.

Second, the premise that some special object is going to simply do something for us all by itself is questionable. If we truly have faith in God, and we as His children, have direct access to Him in prayer, and are able to rightly call Him Father, and that we believe His Word that He is able to hear our prayers and is faithful to us, why do we need a medal then? As sons and daughters of God, we are under His protection. We do not talismans or rabbits' feet or anything else in order to feel secure and protected from Satan or demonic powers. As Christians we should know this. This is a part of our faith in God's promises to us, his heirs in Christ Jesus.

Where in Scripture is the command to make 80,000 medals in order to turn America around in 2007? I have heard responses that "Moses was instructed by God to make a staff." and "God told x to use a rod"...well that is not the same thing. It is a flawed comparison. God was directly instructing Moses or whoever to use an object that He explicitly told them to use. There is nowhere in Scripture that God says to make medals (dedicated to other people, no less) and make them in large quantities in order to protect people from the devil and their own weaknesses.

Please, evangelicals and protestants, this is a very interesting topic. I'd like to hear opinions from others in different denominations.

[Secret Agent Man]

This topic is a legitimate topic to be discussed by more than just one Christian denomination. The topic of relics is not the exclusive domain of just one denomination.

[LiteKeeper]

The Saint Benedict Medal is considered the most powerful medal in the Catholic Church.

Just look up the definition of an Amulet in Wikipedia.

That "other" denomination is moving more and more to paganism and idolatry, IMHO!

[Religion Moderator]

Because your article is making a comparison to a confession which is not a member of the caucus, it does not qualify as a closed caucus thread. The caucus label will be removed and thread should be considered open to all.

[Macoraba]

Besides the St Benedict Medal one ought to wear a Brown Scapular and also a Miraculous Medal.

A pious custom is to carry a Rosary in their pocket too.

[bremenboy]

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Eph 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; Eph 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

If you have all of this what else do you need?
Anything else is not from God

[Pontiac]

If you are going to quote an article out of context and open it to discussion it would be appropriate to either post the article in whole or to supply a link to the article so that others may read it in its entirety.

As it is we are completely dependant on your interpretation of the article and the authors intention in the writing of the article.

[Iscool]

If you have all of this what else do you need?

Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Here is the armor of God:

truth
righteousness
preparation of the gospel of peace
faith
word of God...

Any thing else is useless against the Devil...So who would recommend you acquire these trinkets and trust in them, but the Devil...

[A.A. Cunningham]

In the article in question

That was no article, it was an announcement. The owners of the site assume that those viewing said site are well aware of the efficacy of sacramentals, especially those that are exorcistic -

I command you, unclean spirit, whoever you are, along with all your minions now attacking this servant of God, by the mysteries of the incarnation, passion, resurrection, and ascension of our Lord Jesus Christ, by the descent of the Holy Spirit, by the coming of our Lord for judgment, that you tell me by some sign your name, and the day and hour of your departure. I command you, moreover, to obey me to the letter, I who am a minister of God despite my unworthiness; nor shall you be emboldened to harm in any way this creature of God, or the bystanders, or any of their possessions.

- in nature and have an interest in their proliferation.

Obviously, in your case, that was a poor assumption.

You also need to learn the difference between a relic and a sacramental.

[pipeorganman]

In the article in question, the writer does not ever refer to Christ's power as being the thing that makes the medallion 'work', or Christ being the source of their spiritual powers. He always talks about THE MEDALLION (IT) as being the thing in and of itself having the power to do it. and In fact nowhere does the author evern mention or even tangentially allude to Christ and His power that protects all Christians.

The article in question, is an advertisement to Catholics. It is targeted to Catholics who take their Faith seriously and who would be well versed in their Faith. Therefore, there was no need to address the finer theological details.

This piece completely portrays the MEDAL as the key to protection and casting demons out of people.

The article does not say that the medal is the key to protection. It does say that ”the medal will serve as the walls of a castle in defense of those who honor her (Mary) in the public square.”The analogy of the castle is important, as the walls are not the only part of the castle’s defense. There is also the moat, the draw bridge, the battlements, etc. Thus the medal is just one of the tools in defense of the enemy.

This piece completely portrays the MEDAL as the key to protection and casting demons out of people.

This is what the article says: IT is exorcistic and strengthens souls who are tempted.and ANF hopes THEY (the medals) will protect Public Square Rosary participants from attacks of the devil."

Note that the article says that the medals “strengthens souls who are tempted,” and ”THEY (the medals) will protect … participants from attacks of the devil."This in no way says that the medals cast out demons from the possessed. What is does say is that the medal will strengthen and protect Christian souls. Again, as the article is directed at Catholics, it is understood that the strength and protection come from none other than God Himself.

However, I can see where the word “exorcistic” could lead one to think of the exorcism of the possessed. What the word means is “like an exorcism.” When we are tempted/attacked by the devil, we can perform minor exorcisms that send the devil packing. Thes can be simple prayers, the Sign of the Cross, invoking the Holy Name of Jesus, and the use of sacramentals (medals, etc.) When this is done, we are asking God to come to our defense. We are not “casting out” demons, but we are, with the help of God, “casting away” demons, saying, “by the power of God, get thee behind me, Satan.”

Second, the premise that some special object is going to simply do something for us all by itself is questionable.

Catholics who know their Faith agree with that statement. The object cannot, on its own, do anything. It is only through the power of God, working through the object, that grace is delivered to the recipient.

If we truly have faith in God, and we as His children, have direct access to Him in prayer, and are able to rightly call Him Father, and that we believe His Word that He is able to hear our prayers and is faithful to us, why do we need a medal then? As sons and daughters of God, we are under His protection.

Yes, that is true. The wearing of a medal does not deny any of this. What is does do is remind us that we are under God’s protection. It reminds us to pray asking for God’s help and protection both when we are tempted and when we are not. It reminds us that we are Christians and that we have a calling to be Christians and to resist the wiles of the devil. It is a way in which God says to us that He is with us constantly and will help us if we ask for His help. That is the grace that He gives us through the medal and other sacramentals. It is one of many aids He has given us on our journey to heaven.

[azhenfud]

JMO, but if one’s relationship with and trust in the Lord Almighty is sure and based on his study of word and a prayer life of communing with him, “relics” won’t have any real value.

[RobbyS]

Acts talks about people obtaining the clothing of PAUL, hoping they contained healing power. So relics have an ancient history.

[RobbyS]

Careful you don’t tuned the Bible into a talisman. I regret that most Catholics know little about the Bible, but only a small minority of Protestants have anything but a superficial knowledge of the text. In most of the “Big-Box” churches, the congregants hear very little about Scripture and a lot about Getting in Touch with their Feelings and opening their hearts and wallets.

[siunevada]

I see that you made some comments on the prior thread regarding your concerns and received some replies.

There was a post to LiteKeeper which included a quote, apparently from the order that created the medal or the group distributing it:

“Let us state here that we do not ascribe any unknown or hidden power to the Medal, a power which the superstitious ascribe to their charms. We know wherein its power lies, and we protest that the graces and favors are due, not to the gold or the silver, the brass or aluminum of the Medal, but to our faith in the merits of Christ crucified...”

Do they believe that or do they believe what you say they believe?

[Uncle Chip]

The greatest enemy and weakness of the children of Israel was idolatry, the desire to have something that they could see and feel, and this stood in contrast to the trust in the abstract nature of the word of God.

Remember that serpent on a stick. The Israelites kept it around and venerated it for generations until Hezekiah told them to get rid of it. Later generations grew to think that the snake on the stick had magical healing powers in itself just because God had used it one time and that to teach them a lesson. Those who obeyed the word of God [the instructions of Moses] and looked upon the serpent as they were told to do were healed. The power was not in the serpent on the stick itself --- but in the word of God and their obedience to it.

The weakness of human nature is its attraction to the image of things, that physical representation right in front of their eyes --- and thus away from the abstract nature of the word of God.

[nativist]

Wow. And all Jesus said was “come out”.<P. If the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwells in you, the word you speak will be the same ones Jesus spoke. “Come out” is all you would need.

[DragoonEnNoir]

And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; (Mk 16:17)

Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts you double-minded. Grieve, mourn, and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom, Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up. (James 4:7-10)

It is not through talismans, medallions, spoken formula or the power of any object by which demons are cast out, but only through the strength and power of Jesus Christ. One of the fundamental differences between magic (which is considered an abomination before God) and miracles, is that the former involves men who think they hold power, but in actuality are being enslaved to the 'power'. Miracles involve weak and humble men whom God is using to glorify himself.

Look to the Lord and his strength; seek his face always. (1 Chr 16:11)

God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and there illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them.
Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon possessed. They would say "In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out. Seven sons of Sceva , a Jewish chief priest were doing this. One day the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. (Acts 19:11-16)

These emphasize the fact that it doesn't matter if I hold a 'sacramental' or use any formulaic spoken verse... it is not there that power lies. If I am not a servant of Jesus Christ, nothing will suffice.

It should also be noted that faith, prayer, fasting, and generally sanctification of yourself are important in casting out demons.

It should also be noted that nowhere in scripture is an object said to protect you from the influence of demons (if anyone is aware of one, please let me know).

We do not need to fear any demon, because through Christ they have already been defeated. This is not to say that they cannot tempt and lead us to where our lying hearts want to go. But our hope in these situations does not lie in a talisman, but only in prayer to Christ and trust in his strength.

God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.
Humble yourselves Be self controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of suffering. (1 Peter 5:5b-9)

[Tax-chick]

I know it’s early in the day, but on the other hand, it’s Saturday.

So have a Guinness.

[Between the Lines]

I am bringing up the topic of medals in use by certain Christian denominations.

Don't be afraid to call a spade a spade. . . We all know you mean those Calvinists.

"I am not superstitious, but the first time I saw the medal bearing the venerated likeness of John Calvin, I kissed it, imagining that no one saw the action. I was very greatly surprised when I received this magnificent present. On the one side is John Calvin with his visage worn by disease and deep thought, and on the other side is a verse fully applicable to him: ‘He endured, as seeing Him who is invisible.’ This sentence truly describes the character of that glorious man of God." -- Charles Spurgeon speaking about the medal given to him that day. From Volume 2 of his Autobiography

[Tax-chick]

What cool medals! Men knew how to dress in the 16th Century ...