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To: fatboy
All very well and good, but if God is willing to change his mind regarding the promises he made to the nation of Isreal (because of their sin),

GOD NEVER CHANGED HIS MIND ABOUT THE PROMISES MADE TO ISRAEL!!!!! Paul deals with this categorically in Romans 4, 9, and 11. Note that I did not say promises made to the NATION OF Israel. No such promises were made. The promises were made to the "remnant" or the "true" Israel, who were the people of faith. NO promises were EVER made to those who were physical descendants only of Abraham. It is improper to say God "changed his mind" about the promises made to anyone, and no promises were made to those who were only of the physical lineage of Abraham. Again, this is the clear and unmistakeable message of Romans 4. It is the children of Abraham's FAITH who are his children, and that has been expanded to include the "uncircumsised" believers as well as the Jews who believe. Your remarks about Sproul (under whom I studied, btw) show that you don't understand spiritual Israel at all, because having an understanding of spriritual Israel has NOTHING to do with whether you are Pre mil or not. Again, although sproul is amil, George Eldon Ladd was premil but rejected the false dichotomy between church and Israel that the dispensationalists insist on.

145 posted on 05/21/2007 2:22:00 PM PDT by DreamsofPolycarp (Ron Paul in '08)
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To: DreamsofPolycarp

My Friend,

I’m happy you studied under R C Sproul. I was given a free ticket to a week at the Ligonier Study Center in the winter of 1980. I lived in NJ at the time and we had a storm so I couldn’t make it. To ease my guilt about wasting this, I bought a few of his (RC) books. This was at a time when I couldn’t care less about pre-mil or any mil for that matter.

I’m sure that RCS in a great guy in person. I’m not doubting his faith. However, one of his book in particular, Knowing Scripture, I read this several times over the years. A few short months ago, I re-read it and have come to the opinion that is is worthless. There is nothing of value in those pages. Zero.

It is a huge mistake to get wrapped up in the falable teaching of man. I don’t care what or who say’s so, if it isn’t taught in the Bible it isn’t counting towards heaven. My opinion of RCS is that he holds a weak view of Scripture. That is my opinion and since we have freedom of religion in the US and individual soul liberty in in eyes of God we are free to choose to belive what we want to believe. The truth, no matter who utters it is the truth and a lie, no matter who utters it is a lie.

I have no malace towards you or RCS. If you say you went from dispensations to Amil due to the teaching of someone like RCS, more power to you. I did the opposite, went from Amil to disp., do you care?


178 posted on 05/22/2007 5:30:11 AM PDT by fatboy
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To: DreamsofPolycarp; fatboy
NO promises were EVER made to those who were physical descendants only of Abraham. It is improper to say God "changed his mind" about the promises made to anyone, and no promises were made to those who were only of the physical lineage of Abraham. Again, this is the clear and unmistakeable message of Romans 4.

Preterists try to make a distinction between physical and spiritual Israel, as if it is one or the other, but the Israel of God is both. Those who are just physical descendants with out concomitant faith in the Word of their God will find themselves outside of the Kingdom of God.

Paul tells us in Galatians that the Abrahamic Covenant was the foundation of the Gospel --- and the promise of the Land of Israel to the descendants of Abraham is an integral part of that foundation.

It is the clear and unmistakable message of Acts 1 and Acts 15 and the prophets that Jesus will return to restore the Kingdom to Israel, as promised, and to reign over that Kingdom from Jerusalem, as promised.

179 posted on 05/22/2007 5:38:15 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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