If the saints were all in Heaven, then how could he make war on them and conquer them?
Rev13:10 If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed witht he sword, with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints
Since John is CLEARLY addressing the saints, then why is he telling them to not resist the beast when they are led away in captivity or put to the sword if they had already been taken up into Heaven? Why bother with the Revelation at all if not to prepare the saints for the tribulation? /p>What does this have to do with the Rapture (rhetorical question)? When the rapture is mentioned in Thessalonians, it does not GIVE THE SEQUENCE of events as Revelations does. It is perfectly consistent that the rapture will occur AFTER some part of the tribulation has passed. Which part? Since John's account is hardly sequential, I don't think we can know that. It seems at the very least the saints will endure the coming of the beast and persecution at his hands. What about the bowls and trumpets, and God's final wrath? I don't know; it doesn't seem likely, but Revelations doesn't SAY that Christians had been taken up into Heaven at some concrete time point. John does have the vision of those in white robes in heaven, and is told that, "These are those who have come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." and "...never again will they hunger, never again will they thirst..." So at some point after the start of the great tribulation, the Lord brings them to Heaven, but again we don't know when. One might argue, and I wouldn't disagree that those who yet live throught whatever extent of tribulations that the church will endure will be taken up at that moment when Jesus finally reveals himself in triumph.
As John tells us, "Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near." May God bless you all.
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In Christ, Wiley
Most people read only the New Testament and base all their beliefs strictly on that. My suggestion is read the prophecies of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and others. You will get a much better perspective as to where we really are in Biblical time in respect to New Testament teachings. For example, I will only use Ezekiel 37 although there are many others. The 2 houses, Judah and Israel (10 tribes) have never been one nation since the split in 931 BC during the reign of Soloman. If one looks at the current war in Iraq with the Alliance of the US/Britain with Israel, one can begin to understand Ezekiel 37:21,22. That union has not occurred since 931BC but is in it’s beginnings. Note verse 21, “bring them into their own land.” Unless one understands the Abrahamic covenant of the Old, the parable of Lazarus and the rich man with Lazarus going to the bosom of Abraham of the New, Zechariah 14:9 (King over all the earth of the Old – did you read that? Rev 5:10 of the New). Hosea 6:2 of the Old. The parable of the fig tree and Matt.15:24 of the New. All those verses refer to the times we’re in and the redemption going into effect. If one is blind to the new ecollogical and world and heavenly changes (new earth and new heavens) then all the reading in the world will never convince you. There is much much more one needs to read in the Old if he is going to get the big picture of the New. I’ve got to run.
G-d bless in your search for Truth.
Thanks for posting this. I’ve always respected Mike Adams as a man of uncommon good sense. Discovering that his sanity extends to eschatology is gratifying.
Any article purporting to be about "the New Testament as it's meant to be read," (i.e., no rapture); and which at the same time basically ignores the Scriptural promises concerning the Second Coming ... well, that is a pretty dismal excuse for Biblical exigeses.
Adams evidently has had it with "rapturists," and has allowed that to cloud his rational faculties. I'm not a "rapturist" by any stretch ... but one doesn't need to be, to understand that Adams is clearly full of crap on this.
I'm just now learning however that I believe things that I didn't know that I believed. And BTW, is there anyone here who believes that a person's view of the end times determines their salvation. If not, why am I hearing so much contention in some of these post.
In Christ, Wiley
Bump to a lovely little piece of truth.
Nyer just posted an article on The Apocalyptic Mass by Scott Hanh that is VERY intersting, I think. NYer, I don’t know how to do the link,,,can you put it on this thread please?
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It's a lot more fun to sit down at the King's table, get debriefed on how things are faring in my corner of the Kingdom..." (Post 331 I think)
For me and my family...I'll take THE Personal Savior!
Oh, how wrong are those who are deceived by replacement theology of the liberal and deceived Christians.
Those who read and search the scriptures know that their will indeed be a translation (latin; rapture), a seven year tribulation headed up by the son of perdition ( whom the world will love and follow and believe because of the miracles God will give him power to do so that God’s judgement on the unsaved will be clearly deserved for their refusal of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ; then the 1000 year rule of Jesus the Christ on the earth, the Son then delivers the Kingdom up to the Father, the devil Satan released from the bottomless pit where God chained him for the 1000 year rule, the deception of the unbelieving human race the 2nd time and their subsequent attack on the saints at Zion, fire coming down from God out of heaven, the ressurection of the unsaved and judgement because of their refusal to beleive Jesus Christ is Lord, the casting of souls into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet and Satan and the angels are, the new heavens and earth and the new Jerusalem made without hands descending down from God out of heaven where the Father and the Son will be with the saved Christians forever.
It is written in the scriptures for those who beleive and all the liars will be in the lake of fire with the devil and his angels.