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To: Diego1618; Salvation; Uncle Chip
Rome was Gentile! Babylon was not!

Rome in the mid first century was the center of an empire and the largest city in the world. It had the largest Jewish population of anywhere outside of the Holy Land.

Babylon in the mid first century was an abandoned city in ruins with almost nobody living there.

The Church fathers were always in agreement that Babylon was code for Rome.

1,427 posted on 03/08/2007 1:34:05 PM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: wagglebee; Salvation; Uncle Chip
Rome in the mid first century was the center of an empire and the largest city in the world. It had the largest Jewish population of anywhere outside of the Holy Land.

It was also Pagan....and Our Lord had instructed The Twelve not to go there [Matthew 10:5}! What part of this do you not understand?

Babylon in the mid first century was an abandoned city in ruins with almost nobody living there.

Balderdash! And when these Jews had understood what piety the king had towards God, and what kindness he had for Esdras, they were all greatly pleased; nay, many of them took their effects with them, and came to Babylon, as very desirous of going down to Jerusalem; but then the entire body of the people of Israel remained in that country; wherefore there are but two tribes in Asia and Europe subject to the Romans, while the ten tribes are beyond Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, and not to be estimated by numbers.

The above quote is from Josephus, first century Jewish Historian. [Antiquities Book XI, Chapter V, Paragraph 2]

I get so tired of you folks trying to dismiss the humongous Jewish population which still lived in Babylon during the first century! Peter was sent to these folks [Galatians 3:7], not the Gentiles. Paul was commissioned to evangelize the Gentiles....you know that. Why continue to harp about the insignificance of Babylon when you know it to be false?

1,436 posted on 03/08/2007 2:25:20 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: wagglebee; Diego1618
Rome in the mid first century was the center of an empire and the largest city in the world. It had the largest Jewish population of anywhere outside of the Holy Land.

However in 49 AD Claudius issued a decree for all the Jews to leave Rome and from then on they were personnas non grata there.

Babylon in the mid first century was an abandoned city in ruins with almost nobody living there.

Babylon was a caravan stop, not nearly what it used to be, but a great place to establish a church, since it was a transit route east and west, north and south. And according to Josephus the surrounding area was home to nearly a million Jews, while Rome had at most 20,000.

The Church fathers were always in agreement that Babylon was code for Rome.

Do you know who has that code book now? Is that code book part of the canon of scripture? Did they also have a secret decoder ring that came with it?

1,442 posted on 03/08/2007 2:57:36 PM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: wagglebee; markomalley; saradippity

**The Church fathers were always in agreement that Babylon was code for Rome.**

And so was John in the writing of Revelation. That's why he refers to Babylon.

Babylon=Rome
Beast= Roman ruler of the day -- was it Diocletian? (spelling? Or someone else?
There are other code parallels that the persecuted Christians understood.

One is the woman clothes by the sun -- many Catholics think of Mary.

But primarily, as I understand it, the woman represented Israel.

I forget what the harlotry in the warnings to some of the cities was a parallel to, but I am thinking, without getting my Bible study book out in the car, that it was idolatry.


1,483 posted on 03/08/2007 5:47:44 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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