Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


1 posted on 02/26/2007 4:15:50 AM PST by Gamecock
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-26 next last
To: Gamecock

Good idea!


2 posted on 02/26/2007 4:18:40 AM PST by Tax-chick (Every "choice" has a direct object.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock
Umm they claim to "have used DNA" to "prove" their claims.

So can anyone explain to us just how they got a DNA sample to match to Jesus Christ's DNA?
3 posted on 02/26/2007 4:26:26 AM PST by MNJohnnie ( If they say "speaking truth to power,"-they haven't had a l thought since the Beatles broke up)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: All
My thoughts and some taken from elsewhere in Cyberspace:

1. One mathematician gave "odds" that there was only a 1:600 chance that the boxes of bones belonged to anyone else. This was based on the chance that the names of Christ's family would all be in the same vault.

-1:600 is not really impressive. Would you get on a plane that had 1:600 chance of crashing?

2. We know that there was incredible persecution of the early Christians. Would they risk such persecution if they knew Christ really didn't exist?

3. We also know that the Romans and Jews would have done anything to suppress Christianity. Is it likely that they would have built up a ossuary and put any bones in there in the hopes that they could refute Jesus's claims?

-Is there a chain of custody showing that this was never tampered with.

4. Why would a family from Galilee, and a poor one at that, be buried in Jerusalem, in such an impressive (read expensive) chamber?

5. How do we know that some misguided pilgrim didn't set this up at some point in the distant past?

4 posted on 02/26/2007 4:27:08 AM PST by Gamecock (Ecclesia reformata, semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock

Hmmm...God's Word or the word of another atheist from Hollywood? Not much of a choice for any believer in Jesus.
This clown just wants the publicity and the money that "The DaVinci Code" got. The best thing for Christians to do is laugh at him for thinking we are dumb enough to give his blasphemy any attention at all.
These enemies of Jesus know that Christians aren't into slitting the throats of blasphemers, as the Muslims would do if he attacked their faith. However, perhaps someone should mention to him that Jesus will punish anyone who endangers the faith of a child, promising that it would be better for him to have a millstone hanged around his neck and before being tossed into the sea.


5 posted on 02/26/2007 4:31:13 AM PST by kittymyrib
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock
I think you would have a hard time convincing Betty Baxter that Jesus isn't alive and well. One of the greatest testimonies in the history of the Church, and just a preview of what is coming.

Betty Baxter Story

6 posted on 02/26/2007 4:31:32 AM PST by HisKingdomWillAbolishSinDeath (All the horns of the wicked also will I cut off; but the horns of the righteous shall be exalted.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock

1. Their claims seek to prove God a liar. They cannot, therefore, be true.

2. The chief archeologist that oversaw the work at the tomb, Bar-Ilan University Prof. Amos Kloner, called their claims "nonsense".

3. "There is no likelihood that Jesus and his relatives had a family tomb," Kloner said. "They were a Galilee family with no ties in Jerusalem. The Talpiot tomb belonged to a middle-class family from the 1st century CE."

4. There were many tombs found in the area over the years that had the words "Jesus son of Joseph" inscribed on them.


11 posted on 02/26/2007 4:38:46 AM PST by deaconjim (Because He lives...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock

How about Amos Kloner saying the story is "nonsense"? Mt. Athos posted this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1791244/posts


14 posted on 02/26/2007 4:51:36 AM PST by siunevada (If we learn nothing from history, what's the point of having one? - Peggy Hill)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock

Purporting to find Christ's bones is nothing more than rehashed Templar pulp fiction.


15 posted on 02/26/2007 4:57:24 AM PST by Enosh (†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock

Well, for one, they are appealing to the lies about the Ossuary of James. Whatever researchers think this is credible, presume the Ossuary of James, one of the most pathetic hoaxes in archaeological history, is actually true.

The inscription on the Ossuary of James was scratched THROUGH the patina, proving that the Ossuary was old, but the inscription is new. This discovery, with an empty space that the authors presume to be where the Ossuary of James was, lacks patina altogether on all but one ossuary.

Oh, wait... I forgot... a lot of folks fell for the Ossuary of James hoax because it was only anti-Catholic. Defending Christ would require eating too much crow...


19 posted on 02/26/2007 5:36:12 AM PST by dangus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock
My partner Frank Turk put up numerous excellent links.

Dan
Biblical Christianity BLOG
Pyromaniacs

22 posted on 02/26/2007 5:39:36 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock

Take the situation as an opportunity to communicate the Gospel.

There is no need to debate, because even if one were to win a debate empirically or rationally, such would be good for nothingness without faith in Christ.

The type of tomb was described in the Gospels, and the guarding of he tomb was documented in the Gospels. The penalty for a Roman soldier who allowed the object he was guarding to be taken illegitimately was death. Multiple guards fell asleep and a stone larger than could be moved by one man was moved to unseal the tomb. They were very cognizant of what had happened, to the point of going to the chief priests who then conspired to fabricate lies in an agreement where the priests would then defend them so they wouldn't be executed. (Matthew 28:11-15) Note, that the guards would fully admit to their seniors that they had fallen asleep at their posts,..a crime punishable by death, then they alleged Christ's followers had come and taken away the body, when all of his followers believed he was still in the grave and were in remorse, not realizing the meanings of the Prophecies (John 20:9). In addition, the priests were conspiring in a worldly fashion to retain worldly control of their religion(Matt 28:11-15). This is an important point, because today, just as then, those who will believe in Him through faith see clearly the truth, while those who deny Him, will prefer to follow worldly thinking.

Those who will be saved, will be saved purely by Him, by His grace, while those who reject Him, and seek to reject faith, are given that freedom in their volition.

Not only was the body gone from the tomb (Luke 24:1-5, Mark 16:1-7,John 20:1-10), Jesus Christ was seen for some 40 days along with many others who had been ressurrected. He was touchable and ate meat while in His resurrected body. His wounds were unique and touched by his disciples.(John 20:24-31)

He was the first fruits. He ascended to heaven in his resurrection body.

Prior to His crucifixion, Peter was prophecied to deny him three times before the cock crowed. Peter insisted this would never happen, as one of his closest disciples. While our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus was taken to the high priest, asked if He was indeed the Christ, Son of the Blessed, and our Lord responded "I am", and the high priest rent his clothes, shortly thereafter, Peter denied or Lord three times to avoid being associated with Him in public. (Mark 14:40-72)

Even his disciples didn't believe he had risen when first told of it. Instead they made first hand eyewitness testimony that He had indeed left the tomb.(Luke 24:10-12, Mark 16:6-11)

Later He was seen by them and they even touched His resurrected body. (Luke 24:34-53,


23 posted on 02/26/2007 5:41:20 AM PST by Cvengr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock

Pinging for later


24 posted on 02/26/2007 5:48:39 AM PST by Texas Patriot (Remember.... The Alamo, never forget HOORAHH!!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock

Had to do a double take. I thought the title said "Jesus Family Talking Tomb." I was picturing some lame Easter display complete with loudspeaker.


25 posted on 02/26/2007 6:09:56 AM PST by Larry Lucido (Duncan Hunter 2008)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock; jmax; Islander7; 2ndDivisionVet; somniferum; flying Elvis; MagnoliaMS; MississippiMan; ...

Baptist ping


30 posted on 02/26/2007 6:46:56 AM PST by WKB (Duncan "yes", Newt "yes", Mitt "yes", Rino Rudy "no way")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock

Isn't it amazing that these "scientific" "discoveries" are made and announced a few weeks before Easter every year?

If we tricked them one year and held Easter in August, would we get these "discoveries" in July?


32 posted on 02/26/2007 7:15:14 AM PST by Andrew Byler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock
Where to begin...

Well, looking at the Discovery Channel website's treatment of this "finding," it is clear that we're not dealing with a scholarly understanding of the issues. Just for starters, they say that the Herodian Period was from "1 B.C. to 1 A.D." Uh, guys, that's only a maximum of two years! And then there's this bombshell of a revelation, delivered to breathless listeners by one Jodi Magness, associate department chair of religious studies at the University of North Carolina: "Jesus likely lived during the first century A.D." Do tell! And this pronouncement is, according to the Discovery Channel's take on Ms. Magness' rare powers of discernment, "based on the New Testament writings." No way!!!???

Clearly, we're dealing with purveyors of junk science here who will swallow just about anything their vapid minds think will enhance their ratings. So, enough about the cable channel airing this tripe, what about the tripe itself?

How can DNA extracted from the remains in the ossifies "prove" that the remains are Jesus of Nazareth and His family? To prove such a thing, one needs to have a sample from a known, undisputed member of His family. Do we know of any such person living today? No. Do we know of any such person who died after Jesus' time on earth? No. Therefore, it is simply ridiculous to make the claim that the DNA samples can be identified with Jesus Christ and His kin, real or putative. The best the DNA can do is prove that these people were of Palestinian Jewish lineage. But we already *know* that from the site of the burial (Jerusalem) and the obviously Jewish names found inscribed - Jesus (Yeshua), Mary (Miriam), Matia (Matthew), Yousef (Joseph), and Judah. These were, moreover, very common names for the place and time, sort of like finding a family plot in the US with names like John, William, Mary, Joseph and Robert. So what?

But the explanation given for the sixth name is a real mind bender. The claim is made that the sixth ossuary contains the remains of Mary Magdalene (of course!). Does the ossuary have that name inscribed on it? No. It says "Mariamene e Mara" in Greek (btw: all of the others are written in Aramaic or Hebrew), which is translated as "Mary known as the master." The Discovery Channel quotes Francois Bovon, professor of the history of religion at Harvard as saying "Mariamene, or Mariamne, probably was the actual name given to Mary Magdalene." Citations, please, professor! His only "evidence" is that the apocryphal text "Acts of Philip" mentions the Apostle Philip's alleged sister Mariamne, so, naturally, he presumes this *must* be Mary Magdalene! Honestly, that appears to be the only connection!

So we have somebody named Yeshua presumed to be the spouse of someone named Mariamne who seem to have had a son named Judah. GOTTA be *that* Jesus, right? Well, who are the Matthew and Mary mentioned? Well, they must be more kids of Jesus and Magdalene, or maybe their brother and sister, or...something. Who knows? But since we have a Yeshua and someone else who is implausibly contorted into Mary Magdalene, EVERYTHING else "logically" falls into place.

Well, what about this Joseph they found? Hmmm. There's good Scriptural evidence that Joseph died before Jesus' ministry, since he never apes in His public life and Mary was entrusted to the Apostle John at the cross. That would mean that he was almost certainly buried in Nazareth, and, as a carpenter (not exactly a lucrative occupation at the time) he was probably buried very simply in Nazareth. He most certainly would not have been disinterest and relocated to Journalism due to an aversion to such relocation practices. He definitely wouldn't have been relocated by Christians who, between the crucifixion and the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70, would never have had the nerve to flout the ever-watchful Jewish authorities in reburying the father of that hated "cult leader" Jesus of Nazareth! In a costly tomb built to contain costly ossuaries, presumably with much ceremony for passersby to notice! With Jesus *Himself* conveniently buried there for the authorities to present dead to the world!

Well, there's more, but I'm at work and I've gotta get going. James Cameron is "under the ban" from here on in my household!
38 posted on 02/26/2007 7:46:41 AM PST by magisterium
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock

Cameron is doing what people from Hollywood are supposed to do (in their own warped way of thinking). He has seen Moore win an Oscar for a fictitious documentary. He has seen Gore win an Oscar for a fictitious documentary. Cameron is betting he will get huge publicity and probably an Oscar from Hollywood for this fictitious documentary.


40 posted on 02/26/2007 7:50:30 AM PST by ZGuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock
I teach courses in Biblical Theology at a small Midwest Catholic college. I just gave an interview with a local TV station which will air later today. I spoke about a number of things, but the key points from my vantage point are:

1. The documentary reflects the modern prejudice to give a privilege to material remains over literary evidence. Thus, a collection of bone boxes, no matter the problems with DNA and origins, etc., are more important than the texts of the Bible.

2. Two crucial texts of the New Testament speak against the historical claims of the documentary. One is the claim--made first in the Gospel of Mark, written ca. 67--that Jesus was buried in the family tomb of Joseph of Aramathea. Keep in mind that, at the time when this Gospel was written, kin and friends of this Joseph were still alive, and could have disputed the claim at a moment's notice. The other, even more crucial, is what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15, 1-8. Paul reminds them of a tradition that he himself received from the apostles--so this tradition must go back to just a few years after the death and burial of Jesus.

3. Yet the ossuaries are there, with those names. What is the best explanation for their existence? My strong suspicion is that they are forgeries from the 3rd-4th century, when pilgrimages to Jerusalem began, and when the search for physical remains of the ministry of Jesus was keen. The ossuaries themselves probably go back to the 1st century, but the inscriptions will likely be proven to date to 3rd-4th century.

55 posted on 02/26/2007 10:18:38 AM PST by Remole
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock

Here's the official movie site with all the info including DNA:
www.jesusfamilytomb.com


59 posted on 02/26/2007 11:03:13 AM PST by heather_p (Jesus Family Tomb)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Gamecock

wouldn't the Pharisees have had a better chance of knowing of this tomb than we do 2000 years later? And wouldn't they have used such information? And wouldn't the Romans have done the same? Wouldn't the pre-Damascus Paul have used this info? Are we trying to say the tomb was secret? Then why are the names there?


92 posted on 02/26/2007 12:43:09 PM PST by cdcdawg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-26 next last

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson