[stfassisi]

Harley,
Christ Once said....
"Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and that of the Gospel will save it. What profit is there for one to gain the whole world .

This means we must exercise our FREE WILL and completely deny ourselves.

There are no shortcuts like in Christianity and Predestination is a shortcut.
God WILLS us ALL to be saved!
God wants us to be participants in His abundant love,thus the more we participate the more Grace is given.


"In other words, we have to forget about ourselves and remember to stay focused on Christ and the needs of others. If we just live for ourselves, then we are going to fail to experience true love. We will live a mediocre life as opposed to the abundant life with which God wants to bless us. Remember that it is in giving that we receive. It is in forgiving that we are forgiven, and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life" ( Saint Francis of Assisi).

Predestination takes away the beauty of God,s Salvation plan for mankind.
We are not above angels and angels are NOT Predestined!

Dear Brother,
I see no need to go round and round on predestination because I see it as a distraction that is divisive amongst Christians.

From the words of Saint Teresa Benedicta of the Cross(Edith Stein)the Carmilite martyr killed at Auschwitz

"Do not accept anything as the truth if it lacks love. And do not accept anything as love which lacks truth! One without the other becomes a destructive lie."

I wish you a Blessed day!

[HarleyD]

Christ Once said...."Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. ...This means we must exercise our FREE WILL and completely deny ourselves.

You forget about Augustine's prayer, "Command what you will, and give what you command." I believe that this is the very heart and nature of God. God commands and God must give what He commands. While I cannot explain why God behaves in this manner, it is true nevertheless. God commands that we go out and make disciples, but does any of us really believe that we make disciples? God commands that we pray, yet He knows and supplies our needs. On and on. In reference to the above, Christ indeed tells the masses that whoever wishes to follow him must deny himself and follow. But, God must grant us the ability to deny ourselves.

The great Pelagius error was the he was unable to understand this duel nature of God. In Pelagius mind God commands and we must obey. This is what the heart of the gospel has become, a heresy that was started and condemned in the very early church.

Predestination takes away the beauty of God,s Salvation plan for mankind. We are not above angels and angels are NOT Predestined!

So I thought about predestination. But rather than take away the beauty of God, it underscore the richness of God's love for us, those who God has chosen. God selected you and me and many others while we were sinners, totally incapable of helping ourselves. Like Paul on the Damacus Road, He opened our eyes to the truth. Doesn't that in itself make us want to be obedient to Him?

Admittedly, what is hard to understand is the reprobates and why God does not save everyone. The only thing I can say is that He doesn't.

I see no need to go round and round on predestination because I see it as a distraction that is divisive amongst Christians.

It's the issue that divided Pelagius from Augustine, the eastern church from the western, the Protestants from the Catholics, and now the Reformers from the rest of the Protestants. There is only a remenant of us left who truly believe God exclusively saves man.

It does seem very distractive and divisive and it would be a lot easier (believe me) not to say anything when we are such a small minority. It's hard to convince 95% of today's Christians that they have the wrong view of God. I really am a very pleasent sort of person-really-and it's against my nature to sound so nasty. But if I'm going to be true to the western church fathers, the creeds, the history, and the Reformers, then I must speak correctly on how I see the scriptures and let the chips fall where they will.

May God be merciful where I'm wrong. May He shed light where I am correct.

Blessings