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To: stfassisi
A very interesting but lengthy article. I didn't have time to read everything but here are a few comments:

Scripture speaks always and only of predestination to full membership in Church.

The Eastern Fathers, absolutely all of them, and Westerners before Augustine

So in that theory, God does not really love anyone, He merely uses the few for His own purposes, not for their sake….Of course Augustine did not see this fact, or he would surely have stayed away from his theory.

(Hence, within that framework, he thought that the words of Romans 9:13,"I have loved Jacob and hated Esau" meant that God really hated Esau. And without even looking at Esau's life wanted to damn him) . Actually, St. Paul does not speak of any such thing

6 posted on 02/22/2007 5:50:39 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
Christ Once said....
"Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and that of the Gospel will save it. What profit is there for one to gain the whole world .

This means we must exercise our FREE WILL and completely deny ourselves.

There are no shortcuts like in Christianity and Predestination is a shortcut.
God WILLS us ALL to be saved!
God wants us to be participants in His abundant love,thus the more we participate the more Grace is given.

"In other words, we have to forget about ourselves and remember to stay focused on Christ and the needs of others. If we just live for ourselves, then we are going to fail to experience true love. We will live a mediocre life as opposed to the abundant life with which God wants to bless us. Remember that it is in giving that we receive. It is in forgiving that we are forgiven, and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life" ( Saint Francis of Assisi).

Predestination takes away the beauty of God,s Salvation plan for mankind.
We are not above angels and angels are NOT Predestined!

Dear Brother,
I see no need to go round and round on predestination because I see it as a distraction that is divisive amongst Christians.

From the words of Saint Teresa Benedicta of the Cross(Edith Stein)the Carmilite martyr killed at Auschwitz

"Do not accept anything as the truth if it lacks love. And do not accept anything as love which lacks truth! One without the other becomes a destructive lie."

I wish you a Blessed day!
7 posted on 02/22/2007 9:22:16 AM PST by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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