"The fact that there are greater and lesser sins is not news. We are tempted to go the route of "Well at least it's not as bad as that." However, that is not Christianity. Christ tells us that we must pick up our crosses and follow Him. Pursuing the path of the lesser of two evils rather than the path of the good is a very old trick."
I'm not sure if that exactly describes my line of thinking.
I think what my problem is that when someone tells me "this is what the Church has taught from the very beginning" and then they give me these quotes as proof....well, they don't exactly say what is being claimed.
What I'm reading is the opinion of men who considered abortion/contraception to be one and the same.
Well...they aren't.
I'm also reading opinions of men who believed any sex outside of procreation is sinful...well - that isn't true either.
So I'm left wondering why the Church is claiming to stand on this "proof" - when I just don't see it as very convincing proof.
Does that make sense?
Don't worry about scolding me. Believe me when I tell you I have been properly scolded by many good catholics, and that still hasn't settled my questions.
I have to agree with you there. My rule for anytime someone claims that this and that are the same thing is to ask why there are two different terms for it. Abortion and contraception are two different things. They do share some qualities; i.e. sinful and frustrating the natural order.
I'm also reading opinions of men who believed any sex outside of procreation is sinful...well - that isn't true either.
I also agree with this. To say that sex is only for pro-creation is the flipside of saying it's purely for pleasure. Just as the early Church struggled with trying to understand the nature of God and the Trinity and wrestling with the various ideas about Him, the Church has also wrestled with the nature of Christian sexuality. At first, things are seen through a glass darkly, in time things become clearer. The Church has more precisely pointed to the breach created between the recreational and procreational aspects of sex as the problem. While the early Fathers ought to be considered for a complete understanding, the Chair of Peter holds the keys.
I would hope that those Christians who find birth control perfectly acceptable find pause when considering that ALL Christian denominations were against birth control until about the 1930's. Do they seriously believe that they are unaffected by secularist Age of Enlightenment thinking in this regard? That their opinion on this matter has Nothing To Do with the tempora and the mores in which they find themselves? I also believe that the path from acceptance of birth control (sex is for pleasure) has lead to the eventual acceptance of homosexuality. To be sure there are those who still maintain the acceptance of birth control while not accepting homosexuality, but there are always those with one foot on the old paradigm and one on the new. There were those who only accepted contraception for married couples only but never unmarried folks. How long do they think that society can be in for a penny but not for a pound? It never works that way, the acceptance of one part of a new paradigm logically and empirically leads society to accept the whole kit and caboodle.
Don't worry about scolding me. Believe me when I tell you I have been properly scolded by many good catholics, and that still hasn't settled my questions.
I am not good at scolding as I always regret falling into that mode. Seeing as that approach hasn't worked on you yet I shall try another recourse. Although considering the distinct possibility of terminal stubborness, I've no idea what that recourse may be...
------"What I'm reading is the opinion of men who considered abortion/contraception to be one and the same. Well...they aren't.
I'm also reading opinions of men who believed any sex outside of procreation is sinful...well - that isn't true either.
So I'm left wondering why the Church is claiming to stand on this "proof" - when I just don't see it as very convincing proof.
Does that make sense?
Don't worry about scolding me. Believe me when I tell you I have been properly scolded by many good catholics, and that still hasn't settled my questions."------
Sorry, but it appears that you may be well beyond MY help.(not to say that I'm any HELP). Still, it appears that you are trying to justify these things with your emotions. That's all I see in your posts. Do some reading on the subjects before you try to speak to these subjects...... if they don't FEEL right to you, that may be an indication that you are in need of a change of heart.
Please don't think I'm judging you or getting 'personal'..... I am just telling you what I am seeing from your posts.
To qualify my own 'opinions' that you so confidently dismiss as in error let me tell you about MYSELF. I hold bachelors degrees in cellular/molecular biology and chemistry and am a former embryologist with genetic engineering experience as a Howard Hughes Medical Institute Fellow. I hold a Doctor of Pharmacy degree and am intimately familiar with the products we are discussing.
I don't say these things to try and prove I am right. There are plenty of others with credentials greater than mine who would contend that birth control is not killing children....
To be sure, you can ALWAYS find someone who can satisfy your itching ears and lead you exactly where you want to go(or where you THINK you want to go).
So, wife of Scot, what's your background and why are YOU so sure of your position?