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Religion Forum Research Project: God is the Rock
Various | January 25, 2007 | Alamo-Girl

Posted on 01/25/2007 10:49:26 AM PST by Alamo-Girl

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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Though we all are to rule and reign with Christ . . . evidently there's SOME delegation of some sort of authority!

LOL.


161 posted on 01/31/2007 11:19:34 AM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE & HIS ENEMIES BE 100% DONE-IN; & ISLAM & TRAITORS FLUSHED)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
The distinction you're missing is that once Christ comes, there is no need for any other ruler than Christ.

No? There's no need? So we are all just floating out there individual believers. There's no authority, and every church just gets to decide what Scripture means. The Church has no power to excommunicate. The Church is not the pillar and ground of truth. The gates of hell can and do prevail against it everytime it is ripped apart by heresy.

Christ is Supreme King and Head of the Church. But to say categorically that no earthly leadership is *needed*...well, why do you have pastors at all then? Why councils? Why presbyters? Why appoint *anyone* over any Christian believer?

That, good Dr., is not religion but sheer madness. And moreover, I don't think your church works that way.

162 posted on 01/31/2007 11:21:50 AM PST by Claud
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To: Claud; All; Alamo-Girl; Blogger; .30Carbine; DarthVader

ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?
= = =

I assume you read that Scripture yourself.

It confirms what I've been saying about THE CONGREGATION in I Cor 12-14 having the authority--particularly wisely exercised toward humble wise old codgers deciding tricky things.

No hint of a multi-layered bureaucratic edifice of the sort Christ railed so much against.

Thanks for such a good Old Testament confirmation of the emphasis on THE CONGREGATION having the authority a la I Cor 12-14


163 posted on 01/31/2007 11:22:29 AM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE & HIS ENEMIES BE 100% DONE-IN; & ISLAM & TRAITORS FLUSHED)
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To: 1000 silverlings
Actually Peter himself wrote something which argues against the need for Popes and magisterium. Want to read it?

Hey sure, why not LOL

164 posted on 01/31/2007 11:22:32 AM PST by Claud
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To: Claud

My memory is going, actually John wrote it, lol


165 posted on 01/31/2007 11:22:47 AM PST by 1000 silverlings
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To: 1000 silverlings

With your elevation of Peter and the pope, you return to wretched legalism, if not outright idolatry.
= = =

Since the fall, IT'S A HUMAN NATURE THING.

Therefore, the more sensible for Holy Spirit to reign THROUGH THE CONGREGATION and the humble wise old arts running loose in it.


166 posted on 01/31/2007 11:24:22 AM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE & HIS ENEMIES BE 100% DONE-IN; & ISLAM & TRAITORS FLUSHED)
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To: Quix
Thanks for such a good Old Testament confirmation of the emphasis on THE CONGREGATION having the authority a la I Cor 12-14

Did you read that passage in Numbers? You saw one word and ran off with it. The whole sense of it is that *duly constituted* religious authority *cannot be circumvented*.

You don't think the Israelites had authority to depose Moses, do you?

167 posted on 01/31/2007 11:26:17 AM PST by Claud
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To: Claud

Didn't say that it was. Said neither of us can be absolutely dogmatic. Based on the rest of what we see of Peter and the Apostles in Scripture I believe your interpretation is incorrect (i.e., we do not see him referred to or treated as one having unique authority among the apostles in the rest of Scripture).


168 posted on 01/31/2007 11:27:03 AM PST by Blogger
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To: 1000 silverlings

we're both suffering from that today LOL....post it anyway. :)


169 posted on 01/31/2007 11:27:03 AM PST by Claud
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To: Claud; Dr. Eckleburg; Blogger; Quix
There's no authority, and every church just gets to decide what Scripture means

The bible refutes that idea soundly. Here is what John wrote:

1 John 2:2:25

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

170 posted on 01/31/2007 11:27:05 AM PST by 1000 silverlings
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To: Claud

Why?

Because of his humility, God could trust him with such authority.

I know of no papal equivalent coming remotely close.

Nor in any other denomination though John Wimber was a great example of humility to his dying day.

And, interestingly, God saw fit to take him home through a most humble means--a fall in the shower. LOL.


171 posted on 01/31/2007 11:27:53 AM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE & HIS ENEMIES BE 100% DONE-IN; & ISLAM & TRAITORS FLUSHED)
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To: Blogger
Didn't say that it was. Said neither of us can be absolutely dogmatic.

Oh, there I agree. My opinion on its own means nothing.

172 posted on 01/31/2007 11:28:12 AM PST by Claud
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To: Claud

No. Korah advanced the priesthood of all REBELS.

Very different thing.

Actually, a case could be made that the RC edifice is an edifice of rebels but that's a whole nother thread.


173 posted on 01/31/2007 11:28:57 AM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE & HIS ENEMIES BE 100% DONE-IN; & ISLAM & TRAITORS FLUSHED)
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To: Campion; Alamo-Girl
Matthew 16 is really pretty clear. Christ says, speaking to Peter, "You are "Rock" (Petros in Greek; Kepha in Aramaic) and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven ...")

Except for the brief digression whose subject is the church, the subject of the whole sentence is Peter, Cephas, "rocky". If Christ wanted to emphasize in this passage that he himself is the rock to the exclusion of all others, he picked a rather strange time to rename Peter, "rock", and a rather strange mode of speech which left that concept not only unspoken, but not even vaguely implied.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

" If Christ wanted to emphasize in this passage that he himself is the rock to the exclusion of all others, he picked a rather strange time to rename Peter, "rock",..."

Except that he didn't choose that time????

MATTHEW 4:

[18] As he walked by the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.

174 posted on 01/31/2007 11:34:16 AM PST by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know nothing.)
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To: Quix
evidently there's SOME delegation of some sort of authority!

Amen. The authority being the written word of God as revealed by the Holy Spirit. And we are to try the spirits to see if they are of God and to rightly divide the word of God as Scripture interprets Scripture.

All earthly authority is to be weighed against the word of God, the final authority.

" Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." -- John 17:17

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." -- Matthew 24:35


175 posted on 01/31/2007 11:37:45 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Claud
What happened to Korah, Quix? For advancing the priesthood of all believers apart from the divinely instituted priesthood of Aaron?

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1Pe 2:9

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

176 posted on 01/31/2007 11:38:09 AM PST by 1000 silverlings
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To: OLD REGGIE
Except that he didn't choose that time????

He's not renaming Simon in Matthew 4:18. That's the evangelist talking, and he's writing to Christians a few years after the resurrection who knew exactly who "Simon called Peter" was. Matthew designates him "Simon called Peter" in 4:18 to distinguish him from other men named "Simon," in particular Simon the zealot party member.

177 posted on 01/31/2007 11:39:11 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: 1000 silverlings

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!


178 posted on 01/31/2007 11:39:35 AM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE & HIS ENEMIES BE 100% DONE-IN; & ISLAM & TRAITORS FLUSHED)
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To: Claud; Quix

Jesus was from the house of Judah, so how'd He gettobe the high Priest?


179 posted on 01/31/2007 11:40:05 AM PST by 1000 silverlings
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To: Quix
RC edifice is an edifice of rebels

Is that anything like "the Pope and his minions breaking away from the Church of England"?

180 posted on 01/31/2007 11:40:17 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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