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To: adiaireton8
Dear A8,

I appreciate your belief and perspective, and you are right when you say I carry some baggage with me, but I really don't think that is what made me question and ultimately have to distance myself from a faith that tells me I must believe in the doctrines of the immaculate conception, purgatory and papal infallibility in order to even begin to embark upon the narrow, salvific road. I cannot imagine St. Paul and St. Peter preaching these doctrines to their congregations at parity with preaching Christ crucified. I think it is error to bind the faithful's conscience to these doctrines. I do agree with Luther, it is not wise to go against conscience, and I'm not going to do that.

I made my confirmation when I was 13 years old. I was confirmed by a bishop who had never laid eyes on me or a single one of my classmates. He could have easily made a few trips to all of the schools in his diocese to get to know the kids whose job it was to shepherd. The episcopacy of the apostles was a teaching office. My bishop taught us nothing. If the episcopacy has devolved into mainly an administrative position, it is not equal to the episcopacy of the apostles, as far as I can see. If my confirmation would have taken place when I was 18 or so, I would have refused it, because I never would have taken a vow to defend what I perceived and perceive as inchoate doctrine.

These doctrines are not of apostolic origin in my view. In fact, it's likely by present day RC doctrine that the apostles could run the danger of excommunication. The church needs to repent just like those individuals in her midst who have erred and who have a problem with pride when they are called to do so. I don't say this to denigrate the church, as St. Augustine said, she is a whore, but she is my mother. The one problem I have with that teaching of Augustine's -and which can easily tie into the donatist problem you mention- is that if your mother is a whore it is likely she's a lousy mother who can even put you in danger and jeopordize your life by the men she brings home.

A, if the RCC's position on doctrines mentioned was such that, allowing that I did not undermine them in public or in private (think Hannity), that I remained teachable concerning them and that I didn't have to subscribe to them, I would still be RC.

I've heard all the arguments arrayed against me, first among them being that I am luciferian in that my disposition as outlined here, is one of truculence and ultimately equal to Lucifer's non-serviam. The others being, when they are reduced, to me being not smart enough to understand what said doctrines really mean and as such consigning my case to the ash heap of invincible ignorance. Let he who will, judge me as he pleases or sees fit, I am not moved by that in one direction or another.

I realize the RCC church doesn't accept my views and does not want me or my kind in its midst. With that in mind, I do not knock on its door nor agitate it nor trouble it. I've taken this lonely path without regret, and I've gained much from it. I'm a pilgrim searching for a good and loving pastor and a pilgrim who seeks to know God through His Son. I don't believe that's a crime against God or His church. I know that we are not in agreement with what I've written here, but I do wish you the peace of the Lord, and I do hope you wish me the same.

178 posted on 05/16/2007 9:19:34 AM PDT by AlbionGirl
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To: AlbionGirl
AG,

Even given the problems in the Catholic Church, to whom else will you turn? Where else will you find the true Body and Blood of Christ?

As Fr. Kimel says:

"It doesn’t matter how vigorously you protest your belief in the eucharistic real presence: if you are not willing and eager to prostrate yourself before the Holy Gifts and adore, worship, and pray to the glorified Lord Jesus Christ, present under the forms of bread and wine, you really do not believe in the real presence."

I know how casually many poorly catechized Catholics treat Christ's Body and Blood in the Eucharist. But I have never seen a presbyterian bow down and worship the Eucharistic gifts.

That's actually a good thing, however, because as St. Ignatius of Antioch (d. 107 AD) said, "Let that Eucharist be held legitimate which is offered by the bishop or by one to whom the bishop has committed this charge." Since presbyterians do not have valid orders, their pastors cannot consecrate bread and wine, and so worshipping the Eucharistic elements consecrated by someone without valid orders would be idolatry.

-A8

179 posted on 05/16/2007 10:26:26 AM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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