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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Yawn. It is typical of Calvin to write something self evident, boring, and long, and sprinkle this bladness with some swears against "the papists" that do not follow from the scripture cited. Here's an exampe of his method.
because the inward conversion of the heart ought to bring forth fruits in the life, repentance cannot be rightly taught unless works be required, not those frivolous works which are only in estimation amongst the Papists, but such as are sound testimonies of innocence and holiness.

The whole section preceding this is a regular old commentary on Acts 2:38. There is nothing wrong with it. Then, all of a sudden, "not those frivolous works ...". So Papists do frivolous works and Calvinists do real works? What does it have to do with anything?

Like a magician distracts you by some song and dance, before he pulls the pigeon out of his sleeve, so does Calvin begin every paragraph with an unobjectionable gospel commentary, then sneaks in some anti-Catholic invective that he did not support by any gospel. Here is one more:

Moreover, the Papists do so corrupt this other part of the gospel, that they quite exclude the remission of sins, which was to be obtained by Christ. They confess their sins are freely forgiven in baptism, but they will have them redeemed with satisfactions after baptism;
Acts 2:38 says that? 2 Corinthians 5:20 says that? Of course not. Calvin says that. The preceding stuff was camouflage.

The scripture is filled with exhortations for virtue and continual repentance. Peter repents. Seven times were are to repent: "if he sin against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day be converted unto thee, saying, I repent; forgive him" (Luke 17:4). ow can one teach against the sacrament of penance (confession) and not mention the fact that is it authorized in the Gospel as a repetitive sacrament (James 5:16, 1 John 1:9, John 20:23, Matthew 6:12), in addition to baptism?

The church receives the Holy Spirit; it does not dispense the Holy Spirit.

Where does this follow from? Apostles baptized. The Church baptizes. Your church probably baptizes too, a Catholic baptism, I am sure -- there is no other. Baptism is what makes one Christian. The gift of the Holy Ghost is attached to baptism. Calvin does not dispute that. Is it your contention that the Church receives the Holy Spirt but does not give it to anyone? It would not be Church then.

13,401 posted on 04/23/2007 12:59:39 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex; Alamo-Girl; Quix; HarleyD; 1000 silverlings; wmfights; blue-duncan; P-Marlowe; ...
Maybe you find Calvin "long and boring and self-evident" because you're missing his point.

So Papists do frivolous works and Calvinists do real works? What does it have to do with anything?

No, Papists believe their good works can earn them salvation, while Protestants know that good works are the result of the Holy Spirit opening our hearts to God because of Christ's atonement alone.

"They (RCC) confess their sins are freely forgiven in baptism, but they will have them redeemed with satisfactions after baptism;"

Calvin here refers to the fact that the RCC teaches you must be forgiven over and over and over again through confession and priestly absolution and further good works, when in fact God's children were forgiven every sin once for all time by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ who redeemed His flock in full.

The gift of the Holy Ghost is attached to baptism. Calvin does not dispute that.

Calvin would not put the Holy Spirit in second place to baptism as he carefully explained in the Commentary I gave. Baptism flows from the Holy Spirit and is accomplished by the will of God, not the will of the church.

Is it your contention that the Church receives the Holy Spirit but does not give it to anyone?

Believers receive the Holy Spirit. Believers make up a congregation. The Holy Spirit speaks to and regenerates the individual heart of each believer. The congregation and the groups of congregations making up the church exist to preach the Good News of the Gospel and to enjoy glorying God in unison.

The church exists by the will of God, led by the Holy Spirit, to serve Jesus Christ. Not vice versa.

Everything, absolutely everything, is subordinate to Jesus Christ.

WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH

CHAPTER 25
OF THE CHURCH

1. The catholic or universal church, which is invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ the Head thereof; and is the spouse, the body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.

2. The visible church, which is also catholic or universal under the gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion; and of their children: and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ, the house and family of God, out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation.

3. Unto this catholic visible church Christ hath given the ministry, oracles, and ordinances of God, for the gathering and perfecting of the saints, in this life, to the end of the world: and doth, by his own presence and Spirit, according to his promise, make them effectual thereunto.

4. This catholic church hath been sometimes more, sometimes less visible. And particular churches, which are members thereof, are more or less pure, according as the doctrine of the gospel is taught and embraced, ordinances administered, and public worship performed more or less purely in them.

5. The purest churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error; and some have so degenerated, as to become no churches of Christ, but synagogues of Satan. Nevertheless, there shall be always a church on earth, to worship God according to his will.

6. There is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof."


13,406 posted on 04/23/2007 1:53:50 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: annalex; .30Carbine; All

Please consider voting in my personal request poll influencing my posting writing style at post #36 on:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1822163/posts?page=37


13,423 posted on 04/23/2007 9:14:53 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD!)
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