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To: Alamo-Girl; Forest Keeper; annalex; jo kus; Quix; kosta50
Kosta: "Physical space as such is irrelevant when it comes to God, as we would surely say that God is present in all parts of the Creation, immensly vast and it is, and all at the same time. This is a highly transcendental concept which we know of but cannot comprehend."

AG: " I prefer the term timelessness, but it still doesn't capture the point that time is a part of Creation and not something in or by which the Creator exists."

Now this is finally an interesting part of this otherwise way too long thread! :)

As I likely have mentioned before, the Cappadocians Fathers commented, "I believe in God; God does not "exist". And on most every icon of Christ you will see the Greek words, "Ο ΩΝ". The words don't translate into English well at all, but they sort of mean The Being which is the source and Creator of Being or Existence. Thus the Cappadocians could say that God does not "exist" since "existence" itself was created by Him ex nihilo. To carry it further, it is similarly apparent that "place" is a spacial or psychological context for "existence". And it is likewise created ex nihilo by God and thus "place" can have no meaning when applied to God because He is "everywhere" and "nowhere" "in" and "out of" what we perceive as time.

Now here's the wonderful thing about Christianity, at least in most of its earthly manifestations. The transcendence of God beyond transcendence, for us, does NOT mean that we are dealing with a divine and uncaring watchmaker or the monster Allah that the Mohammedans worship, but rather God Who calls us His sons and daughters and loves us beyond our ability to understand. It is even more marvelous when one considers the whys of the Incarnation as outlined by +Athanasius the Great, that the "Ο ΩΝ" became Man so we could, among other things know Him!

12,580 posted on 04/13/2007 3:31:18 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper; annalex; jo kus; Quix; kosta50
What a beautiful testimony, dear Kolokotronis! Thank you so much for sharing those insights!

At the risk of getting into semantics on such a vital Spiritual matter (and any difference would have to be mere semantics) --- I would like to mention that even most physicists will admit two crucial points of causation that lead to the conclusion that “existence exists” or to put it in the terms God used, I AM. They are:

In the absence of time, events cannot occur.

In the absence of space, things cannot exist.

Thus all cosmologies whether inflationary (big bang), multi-verse, ekpyrotic, cyclic, hesitating, multi-world, imaginary time or whatever – all of them – require space/time for physical causality.

In other words, even in physical cosmology, there is always a beginning ex nihilo of space/time, a cause for causation itself.

And there is no other possibility for the uncaused cause than God Himself. Thus some physicists sum it up by saying “existence exists” evidently because they cannot quite bring themselves to name God while “doing” science. LOL!

The Hebrew term for the Greek phrase or concept you have used is Ayn Sof which is God the Creator, The term basically means “no-thing”- One without end from which all being emerges and into which all being dissolves.

In Metaphysics, Aristotle speaks of first cause and final cause in terms of the finite – but of a Truth, Jesus Christ is The First Cause and The Final Cause, Alpha and Omega. Interestingly, Revelation refers to both the Father and the Son as Alpha and Omega.

12,587 posted on 04/13/2007 8:42:01 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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