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To: annalex
Yawn. What you post is protestant pap, and it is not scriptural. some passages could be interpreted your way in isolation, but the protestant sola fide is not anything scriptural if the scripture is viewed as a whole. [Romans 2:6-10] is not speaking of adding anything to faith to be saved.

Yawn. typical RCC double-speak.

The only way to avoid sola scriptura is to avoid what Paul says clearly in Rom.4,and Eph.2.

It does not speak of faith at all; it says plainly that he who "worketh good" is saved, and who does not, is not. What you offer is counterscriptural spin.

Really?

You really do have a reading problem.

I do not see the word saved in vs.10.

I see glory, honour and peace, which would be fruits and rewards of salvation.

James is not saying anything about salvation in James 2 Yeah, right. Learn to read. Generally, your musings on James are uncomprehensible, when the passage is very clear: "by works a man is justified; and not by faith only". Period, end of story. Clear scripture.

No, since the word 'justified' can have more then one meaning.

It also has the meaning of being seen to be right.

James is speaking of what is seen, he is not speaking of being justified in the theological sense.

you avoid Paul's statements in Rom.4 that state very clearly that works are not involved at all in salvation. Romans 4 says that works of law, such as the circumcision (see verse 9), are not involved in salvation. It contains no general statement of works not involved in salvation "at all", -- this is your invention.

(vs.5) It says very clearly but to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifeth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Thus no works.

As for vs 9, Paul is giving explaining to the Jews that Abraham was the father of faith, and his act of faith did nothing to save him, it just showed his faith.

[Luke 17:5-10] shows that we ought to work, not that works are necessarly for salvation Christ explains in that passage that work increases faith, if it is done not out of obligation, but out of love of God, just as the Church teaches.

And that has nothing to do with salvation, it has to do with rewards.

Moreover, it is not a 'work' it is an act of obedience from faith.

the Christian [will be judged] at the judgement seat of Christ and if he has produced nothing he will not receive any reward (but he will still be saved)(1Cor.3,Rom.14:10,2Cor5:10). This theory -- that works only count for reward -- is Protestant spin. The Scripture does not teach that. 1 Cor 3 speaks of the suffering of the saved soul for past impurutues, -- it is a prooftext for purgatory, as I recall explaining to you once, -- but it does not guarantee salvation without good works. Rom. 14:10 seimply states that we will all be judged, it does not explain on what principle. 2Cor5:10 is, of course, another prooftext for necessity of works for salvation itself, not for rewards of the saved: "we must all be manifested before the judgement seat of Christ, that every one may receive the proper things of the body, according as he hath done, whether it be good or evil". You cite what you don't understand, and it does not remove the clear teachign of Romans 2 and James 2, that deal with the issue directly.

No, 1Cor.3 is not proof text for the non-Biblical purgetory.

It is not the person being burned, but his vain works (wood, hay and stubble)

Moving to your next post. Mary offered up a sin offering like any other Jewish woman did That she did, but it does not say anything about her actually sinning.

Well, offering a sin offering means that she was a sinner.

The only one I am concerned about understanding is the Lord Jesus Christ At that, you fail. False mariology is false christology.

LOL!

12,144 posted on 03/29/2007 11:56:50 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))
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To: fortheDeclaration
I do not see the word saved in vs.10. [of Romans 2]

No, not 10, but verse 7 speaks of eternal life, that is of salvation and not of a post-salvation reward.

James is speaking of what is seen, he is not speaking of being justified in the theological sense

This is your opinion, in which I am not interested. James uses both "saved" (James 2:14) and "justified" (James 2:24) in the same passage.

In Romans 4, v.5 speaks of works for reward and out of obligation, and in v.9 of works od ceremonial law. Indeed, neither is salvific.

[Luke 17:5-10] has nothing to do with salvation, it has to do with rewards Luke 17:5-10] explains how faith is increased, through works. And faith, we all agree, is salvific.

1Cor.3 is not proof text for the non-Biblical purgetory

The spelling is "Purgatory". Yes, it is such prooftext. We've been there a year ago.

offering a sin offering means that she was a sinner

What was her sin then? The offering in question is done after a woman gives birth. We don't consider giving birth sin. Do you?

12,436 posted on 04/12/2007 2:25:11 PM PDT by annalex
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