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To: blue-duncan; Mad Dawg; Forest Keeper; Quix; Kolokotronis; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
Jesus, as the host of the last supper, did not say to the disciples "bite me", he said "believe in me". The bread and cup at the last supper was just what it was, bread and wine, not the body and blood of Jesus

You really ought to write a gospel of your own. Till you do, this is what the gospels I have say:

Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: Take ye, and eat. This is my body. (Mt 26:26)

Jesus took bread; and blessing, broke, and gave to them, and said: Take ye. This is my body (Mk 14:22)

taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you (Lk 22:19)

my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed (Jn 6:56)

giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you (1 Cor 11:24)


11,770 posted on 03/23/2007 11:02:12 AM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex; blue-duncan; Mad Dawg; Forest Keeper; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
You really ought to write a gospel of your own. Till you do, this is what the gospels I have say

In the mean time, let's look at some other sayings of Jesus:

“I am the gate; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.” John 10:9
Hmmm, does Jesus have hinges? Do we pass through him as if he were a portal in some Star Trek episode?

“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for His sheep.” John 10:11
Does Jesus have sheep? Is He a Clemson fan?

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.” John 15:1
Does Jesus currently work in a vineyard plucking grapes?

11,777 posted on 03/23/2007 11:28:04 AM PDT by Gamecock (Ecclesia reformata, semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei)
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To: annalex; blue-duncan; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; wmfights; Quix; 1000 silverlings; Marysecretary; ...
The bread and wine could not literally have been Christ's blood and body because He was standing in front of them in human form as He spoke those words.

Instead, Christ no doubt knew those seated at the table with Him could follow His teaching by instructing them as follows...

"And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me." -- 1 Corinthians 24-25

Christ was clearly speaking of His impending sacrifice on the cross. To believe in transubstantiation by priestly invocation is, as Calvin wrote, "an abomination."

CALVIN'S INSTITUTES:
Of the Popish mass.
How it not only profanes, but annihilates the Lord's Supper

"1. By these and similar inventions, Satan has attempted to adulterate and envelop the sacred Supper of Christ as with thick darkness, that its purity might not be preserved in the Church. But the head of this horrid abomination was, when he raised a sign by which it was not only obscured and perverted, but altogether obliterated and abolished, vanished away and disappeared from the memory of man; namely, when, with most pestilential error, he blinded almost the whole world into the belief that the Mass was a sacrifice and oblation for obtaining the remission of sins. I say nothing as to the way in which the sounder schoolmen at first received this dogma. I leave them with their puzzling subtleties which, however they may be defended by cavilling, are to be repudiated by all good men, because all they do is to envelop the brightness of the Supper in great darkness. Bidding adieu to them, therefore, let my readers understand that I am here combating that opinion with which the Roman Antichrist and his prophets have imbued the whole world, viz., that the mass is a work by which the priest who offers Christ, and the others who in the oblation receive him, gain merit with God, or that it is an expiatory victim by which they regain the favour of God. And this is not merely the common opinion of the vulgar, but the very act has been so arranged as to be a kind of propitiation, by which satisfaction is made to God for the living and the dead. This is also expressed by the words employed, and the same thing may be inferred from daily practice. I am aware how deeply this plague has struck its roots; under what a semblance of good it conceals its true character, bearing the name of Christ before it, and making many believe that under the single name of Mass is comprehended the whole sum of faith. But when it shall have been most clearly proved by the word of God, that this mass, however glossed and splendid, offers the greatest insult to Christ, suppresses and buries his cross, consigns his death to oblivion, takes away the benefit which it was designed to convey, enervates and dissipates the sacrament, by which the remembrance of his death was retained, will its roots be so deep that this most powerful axe, the word of God, will not cut it down and destroy it? Will any semblance be so specious that this light will not expose the lurking evil?

2. Let us show, therefore as was proposed in the first place, that in the mass intolerable blasphemy and insult are offered to Christ..."


11,778 posted on 03/23/2007 11:28:10 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: annalex; Mad Dawg; Forest Keeper; Quix; Kolokotronis; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD

"You really ought to write a gospel of your own"

No, you really need to read the gospel in its entirety in context.

(Mt 26:26, Mk 14:22, Lk 22:19)These verses you cite say that the bread that Jesus used and the wine that Jesus used was the same they had been eating and drinking all evening as part of the meal. During the meal He holds up a piece of the bread that they had been eating and says "this is my body" and then He holds up the bowl of wine they had been drinking and says "this is my blood" and then He eats the bread and drinks the wine with them and He says "do this in remembrance of me".

Jesus says it was just a memorial act for if it was His flesh it would not be a memorial but actual. Jesus ate it with them and He wasn't eating His own flesh or drinking His own blood. Jesus was not yet dead so His physical body was intact. Jesus gave Judas Iscariot the bread and wine even though Jesus knew he would betray Him so it certainly did not have any sanctifying power or grace attached to it. Jesus said He would once again participate in the eating of the bread and drinking of the wine in the kingdom which is evidence that they are symbols looking back to what Jesus accomplished and forward to the coming feast, not the continual reiteration of a sacrifice once and for all given for the sins of the world.

By the way, where did this come from "Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you (1 Cor 11:24)"? I know of no competent translation of that passage that gives that sense.


11,842 posted on 03/23/2007 1:30:59 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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