Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children
By John-Henry Westen
NEW YORK, December 4, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A review of New Line Cinema's The Nativity story by Fr. Angelo Mary Geiger of the Franciscans of the Immaculate in the United States, points out that the film, which opened December 1, misinterprets scripture from a Catholic perspective.
While Fr. Geiger admits that he found the film is "in general, to be a pious and reverential presentation of the Christmas mystery." He adds however, that "not only does the movie get the Virgin Birth wrong, it thoroughly Protestantizes its portrayal of Our Lady."
In Isaiah 7:14 the Bible predicts the coming of the Messiah saying: "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign. Behold a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and his name shall be called Emmanuel." Fr. Geiger, in an video blog post, explains that the Catholic Church has taught for over 2000 years that the referenced Scripture showed that Mary would not only conceive the child miraculously, but would give birth to the child miraculously - keeping her physical virginity intact during the birth.
The film, he suggests, in portraying a natural, painful birth of Christ, thus denies the truth of the virginal and miraculous birth of Christ, which, he notes, the Fathers of the Church compared to light passing through glass without breaking it. Fr. Geiger quoted the fourth century St. Augustine on the matter saying. "That same power which brought the body of the young man through closed doors, brought the body of the infant forth from the inviolate womb of the mother."
Fr. Geiger contrasts The Nativity Story with The Passion of the Christ, noting that with the latter, Catholics and Protestants could agree to support it. He suggests, however, that the latter is "a virtual coup against Catholic Mariology".
The characterization of Mary further debases her as Fr. Geiger relates in his review. "Mary in The Nativity lacks depth and stature, and becomes the subject of a treatment on teenage psychology."
Beyond the non-miraculous birth, the biggest let-down for Catholics comes from Director Catherine Hardwicke's own words. Hardwicke explains her rationale in an interview: "We wanted her [Mary] to feel accessible to a young teenager, so she wouldn't seem so far away from their life that it had no meaning for them. I wanted them to see Mary as a girl, as a teenager at first, not perfectly pious from the very first moment. So you see Mary going through stuff with her parents where they say, 'You're going to marry this guy, and these are the rules you have to follow.' Her father is telling her that she's not to have sex with Joseph for a year-and Joseph is standing right there."
Comments Fr. Geiger, "it is rather disconcerting to see Our Blessed Mother portrayed with 'attitude;' asserting herself in a rather anachronistic rebellion against an arranged marriage, choosing her words carefully with her parents, and posing meaningful silences toward those who do not understand her."
Fr. Geiger adds that the film also contains "an overly graphic scene of St. Elizabeth giving birth," which is "just not suitable, in my opinion, for young children to view."
Despite its flaws Fr. Geiger, after viewing the film, also has some good things to say about it. "Today, one must commend any sincere attempt to put Christ back into Christmas, and this film is certainly one of them," he says. "The Nativity Story in no way compares to the masterpiece which is The Passion of the Christ, but it is at least sincere, untainted by cynicism, and a worthy effort by Hollywood to end the prejudice against Christianity in the public square."
And, in addition to a good portrait of St. Joseph, the film offers "at least one cinematic and spiritual triumph" in portraying the Visitation of Mary to St. Elizabeth. "Although the Magnificat is relegated to a kind of epilogue at the movie's end, the meeting between Mary and Elizabeth is otherwise faithful to the scriptures and quite poignant. In a separate scene, the two women experience the concurrent movement of their children in utero and share deeply in each other's joy. I can't think of another piece of celluloid that illustrates the dignity of the unborn child better than this."
See Fr. Geiger's full review here:
http://airmaria.com/
Well, yes and no. Those arrogant baklava and pirogi scarfing Orthodox scum think THEY're the true Church, while we humble, polyester-clad Catholics KNOW we are. (But we're both being really nice about it to each other, for the present.)
Heh heh heh.
But seriously, in our minds it's more like there is one Church, membership in which is, ah, established by Baptism with water and the use of a trinitarian formula. But the members of this Church are scattered, some far from the center, othes not so far.
LIKE that, not exactly that. Maybe somebody else can say it better.
"Kolo, did you take classes or Berlitz or use tapes?"
A mother who spoke Greek to me from the day I was born, a yiayia with a wooden spoon, "Greek School" at church 3 days a week after "American School" and spending probably way too much time in a village where virtually no one spoke English! :)
I wrote out meditations I had this morning before coming online, and truly so much of what each of you has said is incorporated into that somewhere! It's so long, and a rough first draft: I put it on my homepage instead of here on the thread. Some of you may be interested.
This comment especially by our hosepipe I want to bump:
What a plan... The Universal Architect and at the same time the Universal Archetype...through Jesus... An amazing display to observe...
"Therefore in the Mass, we are, so to speak invoking or otherwise contacting the eternal. Calvin (!) says, (I read this a LONG time ago -- it may even be true) that when we sing the Sanctus, the hymn of the Seraphs, we are taken up into heaven - or something like that.
It is not some NEW sacrifice, some repetition, that we are doing. It is THE sacrifice, brought into the now."
Indeed it is. The following explains what we are about during the Divine Liturgy; from the Holy Anaphora:
"Deacon:
Let us stand well. Let us stand in awe. Let us be attentive, that we may present the holy offering in peace.
People:
Mercy and peace, a sacrifice of praise.
Priest:
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God the Father, and the communion of the Holy Spirit, be with all of you.
People:
And with your spirit.
Priest:
Let us lift up our hearts.
People:
We lift them up to the Lord.
Priest:
Let us give thanks to the Lord.
People:
It is proper and right.
Priest (in a low voice):
It is proper and right to sing to You, bless You, praise You, thank You and worship You in all places of Your dominion; for You are God ineffable, beyond comprehension, invisible, beyond understanding, existing forever and always the same; You and Your only begotten Son and Your Holy Spirit. You brought us into being out of nothing, and when we fell, You raised us up again. You did not cease doing everything until You led us to heaven and granted us Your kingdom to come. For all these things we thank You and Your only begotten Son and Your Holy Spirit; for all things that we know and do not know, for blessings seen and unseen that have been bestowed upon us. We also thank You for this liturgy which You are pleased to accept from our hands, even though You are surrounded by thousands of Archangels and tens of thousands of Angels, by the Cherubim and Seraphim, six-winged, many-eyed, soaring with their wings,
Priest:
Singing the victory hymn, proclaiming, crying out, and saying:
People:
Holy, holy, holy, Lord Sabaoth, heaven and earth are filled with Your glory. Hosanna in the highest. Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. Hosanna to God in the highest.
Priest (in a low voice):
Together with these blessed powers, merciful Master, we also proclaim and say: You are holy and most holy, You and Your only begotten Son and Your Holy Spirit. You are holy and most holy, and sublime is Your glory. You so loved Your world that You gave Your only begotten Son so that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. He came and fulfilled the divine plan for us. On the night when He was delivered up, or rather when He gave Himself up for the life of the world, He took bread in His holy, pure, and blameless hands, gave thanks, blessed, sanctified, broke and gave it to His holy disciples and apostles, saying:
Priest:
Take, eat, this is my Body which is broken for you for the forgiveness of sins.
People:
Amen.
Priest (in a low voice):
Likewise, after supper, He took the cup, saying:
Priest:
Drink of it all of you; this is my Blood of the new Covenant which is shed for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins.
People:
Amen.
Priest (in a low voice):
Remembering, therefore, this command of the Savior, and all that came to pass for our sake, the cross, the tomb, the resurrection on the third day, the ascension into heaven, the enthronement at the right hand of the Father, and the second, glorious coming,
Priest:
We offer to You these gifts from Your own gifts in all and for all.
People:
We praise You, we bless You, we give thanks to You, and we pray to You, Lord our God.
Priest (in a low voice):
Once again we offer to You this spiritual worship without the shedding of blood, and we ask, pray, and entreat You: send down Your Holy Spirit upon us and upon these gifts here presented.
And make this bread the precious Body of Your Christ.
(He blesses the holy Bread.)
Deacon (in a low voice):
Amen.
Priest (in a low voice):
And that which is in this cup the precious Blood of Your Christ.
(He blesses the holy Cup.)
Deacon (in a low voice):
Amen.
Priest (in a low voice):
Changing them by Your Holy Spirit.
(He blesses them both.)
Deacon (in a low voice):
Amen. Amen. Amen.
Priest (in a low voice):
So that they may be to those who partake of them for vigilance of soul, forgiveness of sins, communion of Your Holy Spirit, fulfillment of the kingdom of heaven, confidence before You, and not in judgment or condemnation. Again, we offer this spiritual worship for those who repose in the faith, forefathers, fathers, patriarchs, prophets, apostles, preachers, evangelists, martyrs, confessors, ascetics, and for every righteous spirit made perfect in faith."
Blogger, I haven't forgotten your question. I'll attend to it after the Liturgy as it will involve pulling out volumes from the Ante and Post Nicene Fathers set and that is a bit cumbersome.
Thanks
"If it is a ransom paid the devil, I don't believe this is Scriptural. God owes Satan nothing."
You're right. God doesn't owe the Evil One anything. More later. :)
Great hymns. Quite Orthodox actually. I am surprised that having sung and clearly believed what the hymns say, you still don't understand what we are saying about what the Incarnation (which includes the Sacrifice on The Cross) wrought. Is it some confusion about who owed what debt to whom?
"I don't think protestants think about the attainment of theosis at all. By and large they have no concept of salvation beyond being let off of eternal punishment on the basis of the substitutionary atonement."
I am most assuredly NOT familiar with Protestant theology, beyond reading Jonathan Edwards, Luther, some Calvin and being quite taken with the writings of +JC Ryle, an Anglican bishop of the 19th century who was almost sublimely patristic in an English sort of way. Of them all, only +Ryle seems to have a developed understanding of what "salvation" or theosis means beyond not being thrown into The Pit to burn forever in torment. Anyway, that's why I asked the question.
"The Wesleys, who died as priests of the Church of England, though the Methodists claim them as their founders, and the first few generations of Methodists, had an understanding of salvation more akin to the Orthodox than was found among other protestants, but that is now long forgotten it seems."
Comments, Padre?
That's the "insulted" God theology of the West.
"I don't 'call upon' the name of the Lord. He lives within me. I am saved."
And how, pray tell, did you attain this elevated status? What did you do that the various heretics Kosta listed, who also claim or claimed to be Christians, didn't do? Or do you think they are/were saved also?
"I get the impression from RC and EO that you folks are the only true church and the rest of us are off the bubble."
Well, yes. From a definitional point of view, goups of Christians outside the Orthodox, Roman Catholic and those Eastern Churches in communion with Rome, the Oriental Orthodox and likely some Lutheran dioceses (in my opinion)are not truly chuches at all but rather what +BXVI calls "ecclesial assemblies". We KNOW that theosis is found inside the Eucharistic Liturgical community of The Church. Outside The Church, well in Orthodoxy at least, we simply have no opinion.
"God owed Satan ZILCH. NADA. NOTHING."
That's right, Blogger. :)
"He had no power over anything that God was doing and God owed him not a single thing in exchange for our freedom."
Right again, Blogger! :)
"Hence in the Garden at Adam's fall, the separation of man's perfect spirit from fellowship with Him demanded a perfect spirit be returned to Him."
When I read something like this, I honestly wonder if we worship the same God. Your God looks like a bloodthirsty monster to my Orthodox eyes. No wonder the West has rebelled against this in favor of a hedonistic secularism.
"We look at all of Scripture to see what Scripture testifies of itself. You look to your church to interpret what Scripture means. There is the difference"
You say "your church" as if it is just a building that made the interpretations. They are men, who after much study and debate, etc., came to a conclusion and defined our doctrine. They did this through prayer and with the Holy Spirit. How is this any different from what you are doing? Now, as I read the Scriptures, I can go to the Church Fathers for help in defining. I also read threads like this and various other things to see how others have interpreted them. I don't have to re-invent the wheel, so-to-speak. From your post, I feel like you are accusing Catholics of not being able to read Scriptures for themselves. There is no priest staning over me while I read, slapping me in the head saying, "No, you must see it THIS way!"
Protestants have also read and interpreted Scripture in a way that has caused them to form congregations....thousands of them, based on their own personal beliefs. What makes a person decide to go to a Methodist church instead of one of the Baptist churches? If the Bible were so easy for an individual person to read and interpret, why are there so many brands of Christianity?
Maybe I shouldn't be offended by your words. I'm a little touchy. Scripture tells us when there is conflict that the Church has final authority. Why wouldn't I look to the Church for answers? Again, this is after I've read differing views and prayed and tried to determine myself. I have a brain that functions fairly well most days.
Let us test that theory.
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members of member. 28 And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors; after that miracles; then the graces of healing, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all doctors? 30 Are all workers of miracles? Have all the grace of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But be zealous for the better gifts.(1 Cor 12)
Some gifts are better than others. All members work in harmony. The Church has hierarchy from apostles to those without particular gifts.
if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [...] there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity(1 Cor 13)
Not our present dispute, but where is salvation by faith alone in this? Don't see anything about presence or absence of hierarchy in this chapter.
In chapter 14 we learn that speaking in tongues is not to be done without an interpreter, and that women should not teach in Church. We all, I presume, agree on this. There is this passage, that perhaps, speaks to the role of the entire congregation:
29 And let the prophets speak, two or three; and let the rest judge. 30 But if any thing be revealed to another sitting, let the first hold his peace. 31 For you may all prophesy one by one; that all may learn, and all may be exhorted: 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the God of dissension, but of peace: as also I teach in all the churches of the saints.
Man can prophesy one by one so that others learn. Can they prophesy whatever they feel like? No, his speech not only has to be orderly, it has to conform with the apostolic teaching:
37 If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if any man know not, he shall not be known.Where is that condemnation of hierarchy you were promising me? In ch. 12 we found a hierarchy proclaimed. In ch. 14 we see caution is urged about uncontrolled prophesying. For full measure, this is St. Paul asserting his authority, and then bishop Timothy's under his, in no uncertain terms, in the same letter:
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ. 17 For this cause have I sent to you Timothy, who is my dearest son and faithful in the Lord; who will put you in mind of my ways, which are in Christ Jesus; as I teach every where in every church. 18 As if I would not come to you, so some are puffed up. 19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will: and will know, not the speech of them that are puffed up, but the power. 20 For the kingdom of God is not in speech, but in power. 21 What will you? shall I come to you with a rod; or in charity, and in the spirit of meekness?(1 Cor 4)
Really. Isn't winter the time when a peasant wipes his boots, starts a fire and opens the hymnal?
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