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PREDESTINATION; LIVE BY GRACE; NOT BY WORKS (WEEK 8)
St. Louis Center for Christian Study ^ | Greg Johnson

Posted on 11/13/2006 11:01:10 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg

If salvation is all of grace -- if God is God and he has chosen us for salvation even though we did nothing to deserve it -- then we ought to live by the grace we have received. Of course, some of you will look at that and say to yourselves, “Yeah, I really need to do better at living by grace. I’ve really been a failure there. I hope God will forgive me again.” If that’s you, you still don’t get it. Go back and re-read the last seventeen pages and (if you’re a believer) remember that you’re one of the elect!

Our hearts so quickly try to relate to God on a works-basis! It’s our pride, really. I’m convinced that that’s the problem with free-will Arminianism. People naturally process it like this: God requires one work from me, to believe. Once I believe, I’ve done my work and deserve heaven. Of course, in more hard-line Arminian circles, it goes a step further. Unless I’m holy enough, I’ll still go to hell, and maybe I’ve even committed the unpardonable sin and will be damned even if I’m sinlessly perfect from here on out. Legalism. Legalism. Legalism. Such a religion is barely recognizable as Christianity.

But Calvinists can fall into legalism just as easily. You see, I understand predestination. I’m a superior Christian. I’ve got all my theological “t”s crossed and my Reformed “i”s dotted. I sure am close to God. Pride is the Presbyterian’s favorite form of legalism, so watch out! But if God really is for us, and if we had nothing to do with that decision -- if even our faith was given to us by the Father -- then there’s no room for boasting. God’s sovereign choice of us leaves us free from pride. It leaves us aware of our brokenness and humble before God, but all the while confident that his eternal purpose will stand, that we will glory in God forever as objects of his saving mercy. As God’s eternal blessing really begins to sink from our heads into our hearts, we see a new freedom that we never would have imagined when we first encountered the raw, holy, sovereign power of God. Among the newfound freedoms:

1. Freedom from shame, guilt & Insecurity

Read Romans 8:28-39. Nothing can separate you from God’s love -- nothing in the past, nothing in the future. No one can stand against you. No one can accuse you. Even bad things (“all things”) are working right now to your benefit, to make you more like Jesus. God didn’t choose you because of your faith, and Jesus is not ashamed of you—even at your worst (Hebrews 2:11). He’s proud to have you in the family, proud to call you brother or sister -- even knowing what he knows. He’s displaying the glory of his mercy, remember. God’s law is no longer your enemy, but a friend. You can have confidence before God.

2. Freedom from destructive Perfectionism

If God really is for you, then you can quit trying to look good. If you’re trying to be good enough for God, he’s not buying it -- he didn’t choose you because of your great faithfulness. If you’re trying to be good enough for other people, don’t bother. God wants to display his mercy -- that means we have to be broken. God’s glory is not displayed by trying to look like you have it all together. Faith is not a work, and even if it were it still wouldn’t earn you any brownie points. Let God be God. If you won’t show your weakness, then others won’t see God’s power displayed in it.

3. Freedom from legalistic man-made rules

Some of the biggest practical opponents to living by grace are those legalistic little rules that we live by. We love to judge other with them -- they make us look good, and help us feel better about ourselves. (Pride again.) Dress this way, not that way. Wear this much makeup, not that much. Work. Don’t work. Home school is God’s way. Public school is God’s way. Christian school is God’s way. Drink. Don’t drink. Smoke. Don’t smoke. Dance. Don’t dance. This is God’s worship style. If we’re all about God’s glory, there’s no room for any of this. Do whatever you do for God’s glory without comparisons. God has freed you from judging others. You don’t understand God’ sovereign grace until you realize you are a beggar who’s been blessed without cause. You had nothing to do with it -- you’re just a receiver.

4. Freedom from Penance

Even repentance can be a sham if we’re trying to approach God with some vestige of self-reliance. Biblical repentance is a freedom we can enjoy daily, while penance is its counterfeit.

Repentance/Penance

Comes with empty hands/Tries to bargain with God

Acknowledges real sin as against God/Makes excuses for sin

Grieves over displeasing God/Grieves over getting caught

Asks for help to do better/Promises to do better

Is willing to publicly confess, if needed/Is too proud to publicly confess

Relies on God's promises to us/Relies on own promises to God

Turns outward, away from self, to God/Turns inward on self

Produces freedom, joy, and confidence/Produces guilty feelings, anxiety

God has obligated himself to receive any repentant sinner who comes to him. Without this realization, true repentance is impossible. Until we realize that God is for us, we cannot truly be for God.


TOPICS: Apologetics; History; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: christianity; grace; predestination; reformed
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To: Forest Keeper; blue-duncan

Keep in mind, Esquire (which I'm sure you do, with billable hours), lawyers may be a lot of fun to pick on, but they're your best friend when you need one.


161 posted on 11/16/2006 11:21:07 AM PST by AlbionGirl
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To: Forest Keeper
but deliver us from evil, the nature of which shall be determined by the Court.

LOLOL.

"Pending appeal..." Sounds Arminian. 8~)

162 posted on 11/16/2006 11:23:25 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; Forest Keeper
We should meet there again this coming New Year for a one-year anniversary party.

Agreed!

Maybe this year's topic can be Luther's piece on Vindication from Tyrants. Or, we could phrase it this way: Did the title Vicar of St. Peter change to the Vicar of Christ during or around the 9th or 10th Century, and was that a power grab? :)

/snarky

163 posted on 11/16/2006 11:26:16 AM PST by AlbionGirl
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To: adiaireton8

No, the point is you have given no evidence of "sacred magisterium."


164 posted on 11/16/2006 11:26:42 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: adiaireton8
How does one know now that one has a faith that will persevere to the end?

Because they persevere to the end, by the grace of God.

165 posted on 11/16/2006 11:28:55 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: AlbionGirl; Frumanchu; Lord_Calvinus; Gamecock; HarleyD
"Beware of those who seek to win an argument at the expense of the language. For the fact that they do is proof positive that their argument is false, and proof presumptive that they know it is. A man who deliberately inflicts violence on the language will almost certainly inflict violence on human beings if he acquires the power. Those who treasure the meaning of words will treasure truth, and those who bend words to their purposes are very likely in pursuit of anti-social ones. The correct and honourable use of words is the first and natural credential of civilized status." -- Paul Johnson

Great quote. They need it on the Dort thread.

166 posted on 11/16/2006 11:31:22 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Because they persevere to the end, by the grace of God.

So until one perseveres to the end of one's life, one cannot know that one has persevering faith. And therefore, one cannot know that one is elect until one reaches the end of one's life. That has been my point all along.

-A8

167 posted on 11/16/2006 11:32:41 AM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; AlbionGirl; blue-duncan
We should meet there again this coming New Year for a one-year anniversary party. I'll bring an angel food cake. 8~)

Sounds like a great idea.

168 posted on 11/16/2006 11:44:03 AM PST by HarleyD (Mat 19:11 "But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.)
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To: AlbionGirl; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; wmfights; azhenfud; blue-duncan
Maybe this year's topic can be Luther's piece on Vindication from Tyrants. Or, we could phrase it this way: Did the title Vicar of St. Peter change to the Vicar of Christ during or around the 9th or 10th Century, and was that a power grab? :)

Excellent topic choice, the original written by a French Huguenot, "Brutus: Vindiciae, contra tyrannos: or, Concerning the Legitimate Power of a Prince over the People, and of the People over a Prince"

Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos, or, A Vindication Against Tyrants (1579). This Calvinist document is one of the first to set forth the theory of "social contract" upon which the United States was founded. The idea was disseminated through the English Calvinists to the pen of John Locke, and eventually into the Declaration of Independence. John Adams reported the relevance of this document to the American struggle...
And this from a reader at Amazon...

"This book was even more influencial than Thomas Payne's Common Sense, in molding the American mind and preparing it for the war for independence. Much of our Declaration of Independence reflects its wisdom and thought. Written in by a French Huguenot to give Biblical and civil justification for fighting against a government that was illegally killing its own people during the relgious wars on France between 1540s-late 1700. The author assumes a Christian worldview that believes that all governing authorities have been established by God. It seeks to answer the question, "When is it justifible to reject the governing authority established by God without rebelling against Him"? A must reading for those who want to understand religious and political history of Europe, or want to better understand the Biblical justification sought by our own founding fathers in their fight for independence. A must read!"

169 posted on 11/16/2006 11:59:24 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: adiaireton8
So until one perseveres to the end of one's life, one cannot know that one has persevering faith. And therefore, one cannot know that one is elect until one reaches the end of one's life.

Will you always love your children?

170 posted on 11/16/2006 12:00:33 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; Forest Keeper; AlbionGirl

"We should meet there again this coming New Year for a one-year anniversary party. I'll bring an angel food cake. 8~)"

I have often wondered:
Do unbelievers eat Angel Food Cake?
Do Calvinists eat deviled ham, deviled eggs, or a Devil's Food cake?
If you put Angel Food Cake and Devil's Food Cake on a plate together, will they react violently?


171 posted on 11/16/2006 12:01:22 PM PST by blue-duncan
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; wmfights; Forest Keeper; Ottofire; Lord_Calvinus; Frumanchu; Terabitten; ..
"Dr. Eckleburg" and I reached an agreement on whether one can know now that one is elect. See here. We agreed that we cannot know that we are elect until we persevere in faith to death. So in that case, whatever assurance we now have cannot be equivalent to knowing that one is elect. And that is my position on the matter of assurance, as I explained a while back here. Now all you Calvinists will have to live with being "nervous wrecks".

-A8

172 posted on 11/16/2006 12:01:27 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8
We agreed that we cannot know that we are elect until we persevere in faith to death.

Aw. Come on, A8. You don't have to resort to lies to make your point. Very bad form.

173 posted on 11/16/2006 12:12:36 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: blue-duncan
Do Calvinists eat deviled ham, deviled eggs, or a Devil's Food cake?

Of course. We devour them with relish. 8~)

174 posted on 11/16/2006 12:13:34 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights; Forest Keeper; AlbionGirl
Do Calvinists eat...a Devil's Food cake?

Well, you know, we don't believe we are actually eating the body of the Devil so I have no problems with a slice of Devil Food. After all, all chocolate comes from heaven to begin with and is ordained by God. In fact, I certain after the animals, God made chocolate. I'm sure the original text said, "And God created chocolate and it was good." However, it never made it into the final editing.

As far as Angel Food and Devil's Food Cakes on a plate reacting together, this Calvinist believes the Devil's Food Cake is in subjection to the will of God and can only stir up trouble with the Angel Food Cake only if God so ordains it. I'm not a pre-mil Devil's Food Cake believer.

175 posted on 11/16/2006 12:15:20 PM PST by HarleyD (Mat 19:11 "But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Where's the lie? You said in #165 that one can know now that one has a faith that will persevere to the end only by persevering to the end. So, where's the lie?

-A8

176 posted on 11/16/2006 12:16:41 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8

And you still have not answered my question which must mean it's a difficult one for you to respond since you replied with a lie and not an answer.

Will you always love your children?

If so, how do you know you will always love your children?

That's how the elect know they have been redeemed by a love that endures.


177 posted on 11/16/2006 12:17:28 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; adiaireton8
Discuss the issues all you want but do NOT make it personal.
178 posted on 11/16/2006 12:18:56 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: HarleyD
As far as Angel Food and Devil's Food Cakes on a plate reacting together, this Calvinist believes the Devil's Food Cake is in subjection to the will of God and can only stir up trouble with the Angel Food Cake only if God so ordains it.

Amen!

179 posted on 11/16/2006 12:19:55 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: adiaireton8; Religion Moderator
Where's the lie?

Here's the lie, in your post #172...

A8: "We agreed that we cannot know that we are elect until we persevere in faith to death."

We "agreed" on no such thing and A8 is well aware of that.

But often when one runs out of a sound argument, they resort to this kind of misdirection.

180 posted on 11/16/2006 12:24:40 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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