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To: 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; Quix
Thank you for your reply! Indeed, rejecting the Truth the Spirit has pointed them to is a willful, i.e. voluntary, act.

But before you said:

"An unsaved person does not have the Spirit, so he isn't either resisting or grieving God. But if God determined to save that soul, there is no amount of resisting that will stop it. If there is, then God isn't God."

Seems to me that for your post at 1903 and 1870 to agree, then either (a) God wasn't really determined to save the Jews or (b) those who are not indwelt by the Spirit can resist but those who are indwelt by the Spirit can't resist Him.

The Torah disputes a. Romans 8 disputes b.

1,936 posted on 10/30/2006 11:09:24 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; Star Chamber
Let's look at more of John 12:

12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed ?

12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.

12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Not all Jews were the elect, the OT proves this many times. God has determined to save the elect, wherever and whoever they are. Just being born into a society, religious or otherwise, doesn't save anyone. God's will, not man's will is at work here.

1,943 posted on 10/30/2006 11:27:00 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (stand up, stand up for Jesus, ye soldiers of the Cross)
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To: Alamo-Girl; 1000 silverlings; blue-duncan; HarleyD; Gamecock; Frumanchu; Forest Keeper; wmfights; ..
Indeed, rejecting the Truth the Spirit has pointed them to is a willful, i.e. voluntary, act.

But then the question must be asked -- does the Spirit point everyone equally?

And if the answer there is yes (which most Arminians assert) then the difference must lie in the individual.

But then the question follows -- who made us to differ?

And we all know the answer for that one.

"For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?" -- 1 Corinthians 4:7

Sola gratia. By grace alone. Not by him who runs or him who wills, but by God who shows mercy.

CHAIN OF GRACE

2,015 posted on 10/31/2006 12:24:11 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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