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To: Alamo-Girl
Just a couple comments. We agree about the need for agreement concerning authority in order to attain genuine unity.

But, we disagree, I think, concerning the identity of that authority. I believe that the bishops in succession from the Apostles and in communion with the bishop of Rome have the rightful authority in the Church, and that only in communion with Christ's appointed shepherds can we be in full communion with Christ and with each other. You believe, however, that our only authority is Christ, that there are no human authorities in the Church.

So let me ask you a question: If you lived back during the time of the Apostles, would you have been under their authority or not? If so, then as soon as the last Apostle died, would you suddenly be left without any human authorities? But if you would not have been under the Apostles' authority, then why did Jesus give His Apostles the authority to bind and loose and forgive and retain sins, and to speak in His name such that whoever listens to them listens to Him, and whoever rejects them rejects Him? (Luke 10:6; 1 John 4:6)

-A8

1,493 posted on 10/25/2006 10:55:23 PM PDT by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8; Quix
Thank you for your reply!

But, we disagree, I think, concerning the identity of that authority. I believe that the bishops in succession from the Apostles and in communion with the bishop of Rome have the rightful authority in the Church, and that only in communion with Christ's appointed shepherds can we be in full communion with Christ and with each other. You believe, however, that our only authority is Christ, that there are no human authorities in the Church.

Exactly right - there are no mortal authorites of God's kingdom. Only the Holy Spirit has the charge and more importantly, the power, to reveal it to and in man.

So let me ask you a question: If you lived back during the time of the Apostles, would you have been under their authority or not?

No, I would have been under Christ's authority then just as I am now. However, it would have been a moot point because the apostles, Stephen, Paul, Barnabas, Timothy and such were filled by the Holy Spirit - so we would have been of one mind.

And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. - I Cor 2:2-16

It's about the power of God. I surrender absolutely to God, i.e. to Him alone.

1,494 posted on 10/25/2006 11:15:43 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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