Replies

Thank you for your reply!

But, we disagree, I think, concerning the identity of that authority. I believe that the bishops in succession from the Apostles and in communion with the bishop of Rome have the rightful authority in the Church, and that only in communion with Christ's appointed shepherds can we be in full communion with Christ and with each other. You believe, however, that our only authority is Christ, that there are no human authorities in the Church.

Exactly right - there are no mortal authorites of God's kingdom. Only the Holy Spirit has the charge and more importantly, the power, to reveal it to and in man.

So let me ask you a question: If you lived back during the time of the Apostles, would you have been under their authority or not?

No, I would have been under Christ's authority then just as I am now. However, it would have been a moot point because the apostles, Stephen, Paul, Barnabas, Timothy and such were filled by the Holy Spirit - so we would have been of one mind.

And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. - I Cor 2:2-16

It's about the power of God. I surrender absolutely to God, i.e. to Him alone.

Thanks. So, if you would not have been under the Apostles' authority, then

(1) why did Jesus give His Apostles the authority to bind and loose and forgive and retain sins, and to speak in His name such that whoever listens to them listens to Him, and whoever rejects them rejects Him? (Luke 10:6; 1 John 4:6) And

(2) why do you consider the writings of the Apostles (i.e. the NT) authoritative? And

(3) why are the Twelve Apostles the foundation stones of the Church (Rev 21:14) and why will they "sit upon twelve thrones" (Matt 19:28; Luke 22:30)?

-A8

Exactly right - there are no mortal authorites of God's kingdom. Only the Holy Spirit has the charge and more importantly, the power, to reveal it to and in man.

So let me ask you a question: If you lived back during the time of the Apostles, would you have been under their authority or not?

No, I would have been under Christ's authority then just as I am now. However, it would have been a moot point because the apostles, Stephen, Paul, Barnabas, Timothy and such were filled by the Holy Spirit - so we would have been of one mind.

. . .

It's about the power of God. I surrender absolutely to God, i.e. to Him alone.

= = =

Dear Angel-Gal, I agree--certainly essentially . . . but I think I want to tease out the authority part a little bit. I might slightly disagree.

I don't have any trouble with God 'ordained' authority in some sense . . . to teach, preach, minister to the widows and orphans etc . . .

BUT NOT TO USURP.

And, it appears that NO EARTHLY AUTHORITY HAS HAD THE POWER TO RESIST USURPING God's authority once the organization gets up and running for any length of time. So, then, God lifts the anointing and usually the authority rather wholesale as well.

I think that's what we've seen with a lot of TV evangelists . . . God granted unusual authority for Holy Spirit to flow through them and bless other people and pretty soon, THEY ACTED AND FELT LIKE *THEY* WERE DOING IT. And the crash came resoundingly. Their flesh and degree of cleansed purity, refiner's fired purity was not up to the task. Their pride scuttled them wholesale. That's been true from the days of the pharisees to this.

The net effect is, I think, your position, A-G. GOD AND GOD ALONE. Holy Spirit was not sent to be our butler; our secretary; our side-kick; our pet. HE'S THE BOSS.

what IS authority, anyway?

Isn't it the right, ability, sanction to exercise POWER to take action . . . particularly action in behalf of some higher POWER?

On that score . . . God removes HIS ANOINTING, HIS POWER whenever the flesh begins to usurp--especially very significantly.

Trouble is, organizations have their own momentum and their own power and certainly their own SENSE OF POWERFULNESS. And they 'soldier on' as the three stooges PRESUMING that God's power is still under and behind them when HE LEFT THE BAND a long time ago.