PREDESTINATION: LETTING GOD BE GOD

St. Louis Center for Christian Study ^ | Greg Johnson

[Dr. Eckleburg]

At the time of the American Revolution, almost every Christian denomination in America affirmed the Reformed doctrine of predestination. Christians believed that God alone was to be credited with their salvation—even their cooperation with God’s grace was brought about by God’s grace. God had chosen some for eternal life and not others, and only God knew his reasons for the selection. Baptists, Anglicans, Congregationalists, Dutch Reformed, and (of course) Presbyterians—all stood solidly upon this biblical teaching. One thing, however, was sure—God didn’t choose us because he knew we would believe. Rather, we believed because God chose us. God was God, and all the glory would go to him.

After two centuries of immersion in American culture, however, American Christianity has entered the new millennium in a state of crisis. Few Americans today believe in predestination. They may say they do, but they then define predestination as based upon God’s foresight of our faith. In the end, the reason I’m saved was because of my free will, not God’s sovereign choice. I guess the reason I believed when my neighbor didn’t is because I was just better than my neighbor. I was good enough to believe by my own free will. I thank you, Father, that I had the good sense to cooperate with you....

I’ll say this right at the outset. Free-will Christianity is a bastardization of biblical Christianity. It is inconsistent Christianity. Perhaps “heresy” is even a fair term for it. All this “free will” thinking is just another form of legalism, making salvation depend upon us rather than upon Jehovah. Don’t get me wrong—many who buy this thinking are genuine, sincere believers and will be with the Lord forever. After all, a major point in this class will be that God’s grace is more powerful than our blindness. But there has been a lack of biblical teaching here for decades. The result of this dearth has been an even bigger problem, a problem so terrifying as to threaten the very vitality of the American church. We have lost sight of God’s greatness. How rare today is a sermon on God’s majesty, his sovereign power, his wrath, his judgment, his overpowering rule over history, his supremacy, his fierceness, his eternal predestination. If we’re really, really honest with ourselves, Do we truly know God anymore? We have tamed God. Castrated him, perhaps. As one theologian laments... our thoughts of God have become far too human.

This should come as no surprise in America. For two centuries, the church has existed in an American culture whose highest values are personal liberty and individual rights. It would be quite natural for Christians here to filter the Bible through such a lens. The kingdom of God has to be all about me. It has to be relevant to my life, right? And if I am saved, it has to be because of my decisions, right? My will has to be free, right? God would be unfair to have it any other way. God has to be an equal opportunity Savior. Isn’t God a democracy? Didn’t Jesus preach about the Republic of God? All this is to suggest that American churches don’t teach predestination because they are more American than they are Christian. We have come to think that our God is small. Now it’s time for a new Reformation in the churches, a Reformation in which we honor God as God, not just as mascot. We need a Reformation in which God is glorified as God, and not just as someone who “fills our needs.” Enough about our needs! It’s far past time we let God be God. I know of no “need” more pressing than this.

Still, even with all this misunderstanding about predestination, nearly every major Christian denomination in history has felt compelled to have some doctrine of predestination. Our generation is not the first to have to work through this biblical issue. About the year 400, Augustine and Pelagius fought over this doctrine—and Pelagius was condemned as a heretic for his doctrine of free will. Then at the Council of Orange in 529 AD, the Christians united to reject free will in favor of God’s sovereign grace. And again in 855, the Council of Valence affirmed a double predestination. During the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century, Martin Luther called the doctrine of predestination the cor ecclesia, the heart of the Church. Luther wrote more about predestination than did John Calvin, even though the term “Calvinism” was unfortunately applied to the doctrine. If one looks at the greatest theologians in the 2,000 years of Christian history—Augustine, Aquinas, Luther, Calvin, Edwards—although these men disagree on other issues and are by no means infallible, all of them agree on this question of predestination.

“We confess a predestination of the elect to life, and a predestination of the wicked to death; that, in the election of those who are saved, the mercy of God precedes anything we do, and in the condemnation of those who will perish, evil merit precedes the righteous judgment of God.”

—Council of Valence, 855

“Predestination to Life is the everlasting Purpose of God, whereby (before the foundations of the world were laid) He hath decreed by His counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom He hath chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation, as vessels made to honor.”

—Thirty-Nine Articles of the Church of England, 1563

St. Augustine (543-430)

“From all eternity God decreed all that should happen in time, and this He did freely and unalterably, consulting only His own wise and holy will.... The angels and men who are the subjects of God's predestination are clearly and irreversibly designated, and their number is unalterably fixed.”

—The Baptist Confession of 1689

The term predestination itself is clear enough: the eternal destinies of men and women were determined beforehand (pre) by God. Before the creation, God chose who would go to heaven and who would go to hell. Christians believe in predestination for one simple reason. The Bible teaches it. No other reason will suffice. In Ephesians 1:5-6, for example, Scripture tells us when this choice took place—before creation, in eternity. And the Bible tells us what this predestination is unto—adoption through Jesus, to be holy and blameless before God. And it tells us here why God chose us—so that his glory could be praised.

“For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight. In love He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will-- to the praise of His glorious grace.”

Three views on Predestination

The real question in not whether or not Christians should believe in predestination—the Bible clearly teaches predestination. The real question is this: whom did God predestine to eternal life, and (even more importantly) why did God choose those He predestined?

1. The optimistic view: God has predestined everybody to eternal life. Satan has predestined everybody to eternal death. God is for you, the Devil is against you—you have to cast the tie-breaker. The problem with this view is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible's view of predestination. The Bible clearly states that not everyone is predestined, but only those who will eventually believe and enjoy eternal life. Christians are frequently called the elect, as opposed to the non-elect, and are said to be the chosen ones (see Rom 8:33; 11:7; 1 Cor 1:27-29; Col 3:12; 2 Tim 2:10; Tit 1:1; 1 Pe 2:8-9)—God has not chosen everyone. God has chosen some for eternal life and rejected others. But on what basis has God chosen some?

2. The Arminian view: God has predestined some to eternal life because He saw in advance that such persons would cooperate with the Holy Spirit and believe by their own free will. God gives everyone an equal amount of grace, and those willing to take it are saved. God chose us because we were going to choose Him.

3. The Reformed (Calvinist) view: God predestined some to eternal life, not because He saw that they would have believed on their own (They wouldn’t have!), but because of His own good pleasure. God chose us despite our rejection of Him, not because we would be cooperative. God chose to change our hearts, and he has done so and will continue to do so until all of his elect are gathered.

Calvinists and Arminians agree that only some are elect, and that those who are elect will come to faith and believe until the end (if, in fact, they are elect). And everyone agrees that those who turn from sin to follow Christ are saved. The question is this: On what basis did God predestine them? Did God predestine some because He knew they would believe of their own free will, or did He predestine without regard to human choices? Was God's choice based on our choice, or is our choice itself as a result of God's choice? The Five Points of Calvinism

In 1610, a group of the followers of James Arminius, a Dutch professor, presented a list of five grievances to the Dutch Parliament. Imbued with the humanism then arising within Europe, these “Arminians” were not pleased with the direction the Protestant Reformation had taken—objecting particularly to the doctrine of predestination as the Reformers (Luther, Calvin) had taught it. After eight years of biblical study and reflection, however, the Reformation churches meeting at Dort rejected the five Arminian objections as unbiblical. Their response followed the five Arminian objections, and has been passed down to us as the “Five Points” of Calvinism, known for its acronym, TULIP:

Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and the Perseverance of the saints. There are better titles for each of these doctrines—and this class will not deal with the extent of the atonement (that will have to be dealt with later). The two theological systems may be compared as follows:

The name “Five Point of Calvinism” is a little misleading, of course. Calvinist churches teach more than five points—the vision is to teach the whole counsel of God! These particular five points were simply the five under fire in the seventeenth century. One might suggest that these are five of the hundred or so points of biblical Christianity. Yet the one great point behind all five points is the supreme point that salvation is of the Lord, from beginning to end. God is God, and he does as he pleases. And if he has chosen to give us salvation, we’re going to make sure that we give all the glory for it to him, not to ourselves. Predestination is not just a Presbyterian thing. As the nineteenth century English Baptist preacher C.H. Spurgeon exclaimed, “I love to preach the strong old doctrines nicknamed Calvinism, but which are surely and verily the revealed truth of God as it is in Christ Jesus.”

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Well, I see after a day of others calling FReepers "stupid" and ridiculing Blois' name, that Blois is no longer among us.

"Nobody by that name."

If they can't refute 'em, nuke 'em.

[PetroniusMaximus]

"I don't expect you to take my word for it, but I had assumed you'd believe Christ."

Now you are clearly a theologically knowledgeable person. But for the sake of clarity, here's the problem we are dealing with in this line of argument. You are not addressing the passages I bring up that which present problems for Calvinism. In turn, you respond with other passages (this time from John) as if they were the entire teaching of the Bible on the matter at hand.

So you have verses which support your position, I have verses which support mine. What we have to fall back to then is what we see to be the whole teaching of Scripture - (and to a lesser degree what has been believed by all Christians, in all place, in all ages.)

My position can account for your passages - but your position, I believe, can not account for many of the passages I bring up.

If Calvinism was the entire truth then there should not be a verse in the Bible like the one in Matt. where Jesus lays out before the hearer the possibility of two destinies (the cut off your hand passage). Nor should there be passages making salvation conditional upon a person's actions. Nor, for that matter, should there be any verses which speak of any sort of contingency or if/then conditionality.

But to put a passage out there and then imply that I do not accept the words of Christ because I do not accept your interpretation of them is not good sportsmanship. I do accept Jesus words in that passage, but I ALSO accept his words when he said "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

Too many verses in the Bible break Calvinism.

But I await your reply...

[PetroniusMaximus]

"and very few Arminians were ever Calvinists."

I'm one.

It was the steady drip of forced exposition of difficult passage that convinced me that Calvinism was an incomplete theology.

Too many verses had to be radically reinterpreted.

[P-Marlowe]

I'm one.

FWIW, I think there are more "conversions" from Arminian to Calvinist because "Arminians" (i.e., non-Calvinists) are by and large engaged in working to convert non-Christians to Christ and Calvinists seem (to me) to be more concerned with converting Christians to Calvinism.

Just my observation.

Carry on.

[PetroniusMaximus]

"You link to Monergism.com but the phrases you're using do not appear on the page you linked to. Are those highlighted words your own?"


Sorry - wrong link:
A Primer on Hyper-Calvinism
by Phillip R. Johnson
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/hypercal.htm
go 1/4th down.


"For the record, there is no such thing as a hyper-Calvinist. "

Are you saying Calvinism can never be taken too far?

[P-Marlowe]

A Primer on Hyper-Calvinism by Phillip R. Johnson
This excellent article is concerning the dangers of "Hyper-Calvinism" Johnson writes, "History teaches us that hyper-Calvinism is as much a threat to true Calvinism as Arminianism is. Virtually every revival of true Calvinism since the Puritan era has been hijacked, crippled, or ultimately killed by hyper-Calvinist influences. Modern Calvinists would do well to be on guard against the influence of these deadly trends."

The Emergence of Hyper-Calvinism
in English Nonconformity, 1689-1765
by Peter Toon

Spurgeon and "hyper-Calvinism." by C.H. Spurgeon
The Warrant of Faith C.H. Spurgeon
Spurgeon v. Hyper-Calvinism: The Battle for Gospel Preaching by Iain H. Murray reviewed by Grover Gunn
Christ Weeping Over Jerusalem by Maurice Roberts
The term "Hyper-Calvinism" is used in two or three different ways by Steve Hays
What Do Arminianism and Hyper-Calvinism Share in Common? by John W. Hendryx
The Will of God - Hyper-Calvinism Versus Historic Calvinism by John Hendryx
Spurgeon's Battle with Hyper-Calvinism by Geoff Thomas
Duty-Faith by A. W. Pink
A Reply to Baptist Hypercalvinism on the Covenant of Grace by John Flavel
All house and no doors: A Brief Critique of the False Teachings of Hyper-Calvinism
by C. Matthew McMahon
Spurgeon's Battle with Hyper-Calvinism by Geoff Thomas
An Open Letter About Spurgeon v. Hyper-Calvinism by the Founders Journal
Calvinism, Hyper-Calvinism, & Arminianism: by the Founders Journal
Are Calvinists Hyper? Tom J. Nettles
What Should We Think Of Evangelism and Calvinism? by Ernest Reisinger
The Marrow of Dry Bones Ossified Orthodoxy and the Battle for the Gospel in Eighteenth Century Scottish Calvinism by William J. U. Philip (pdf)
Danger of Hyper-Calvinism By Nick Bibile
The Doctrines of Grace, Evangelism and Hypercalvinism by Colin Maxwell
Calvinism, Hyper-Calvinism, & Arminianism by Tom Ascol
The Balanced Truth of Calvinism by Colin Maxwell (Chart)

[Forest Keeper]

Now, what's wrong with this picture?

Grace Presbyterian Church --- DO YOUR BEST ...& LET JESUS DO THE REST --- WORSHIP SUN. 10AM

LOL! I thought you were talking about the sign's instruction to worship the sun at 10 AM. :)

[Gamecock]

Interesting (or frightening) that I can quote the BOM, isn't it? ;-)

[.30Carbine]

HOORAY! Bump that!

[.30Carbine]

Lie from the pit of hell:

God bestows His grace on some

Truth:

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.
~Titus 2:11

John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
~John 1:15-17

However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me—the task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace.
~Acts 20:24

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
~Hebrews 2:9

How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
~Hebrews 10:29

Another twisted thing, from post 843:

And still, God saves whom He pleases.

Truth: God saves all who believe on the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ!

Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
~Matthew 21:32

Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
~John 1:12

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;"
~John 11:25

Then Jesus cried out, "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me."
~John 12:44

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
~John 20:31

Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
~Acts 19:4

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
~Romans 10:9

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
1 Corinthians 1:21

Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.
~Galatians 3:7

But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
~Galatians 3:22

But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.
~1 Timothy 1:16

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
~Hebrews 11:6

Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, "
~1 Peter 2:7

Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.
~Jude 1:5

THE GOSPEL IS GOOD NEWS!!!

[.30Carbine]

God grant that you find your dear pet well and safe!

[.30Carbine]

As stated: if you are in no danger of going to hell, then there's no NECESSITY for you to be saved. That's always been one of my major objections to blind determinism: it cheapens the cross of Christ.

Scripture comes to mind as testimony to these things happening:

For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy.

For I have betrothed you to one husband,
that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness,
so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached,
or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received,
or a different gospel which you have not accepted—
you may well put up with it!

~2 Corinthians 11:2-5

I am wedded to Christ Jesus, and Him Alone - my Maker is my Husband! Nothing can separate us!
Others have married themselves to a man named Calvin, and claim to be married to Christ as well, at the same time.
These choices are a display of free will.

[.30Carbine]

In reply to your 717, see my post above.

[Forest Keeper]

Interesting (or frightening) that I can quote the BOM, isn't it? ;-)

Yeah, how you do dat? :) I wish I had that skill for when they come knocking on my door every so often since they opened up that mammoth temple (10 years ago) about 5 miles from my house here in St. Louis.

[.30Carbine]

I agree with Fru!

" For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."
~Luke 19:10

[HarleyD]

Others have married themselves to a man named Calvin, and claim to be married to Christ as well, at the same time. These choices are a display of free will.

And others have wedded themselves to Pelagius. These choices are a display of God's predetermined plan. ;O)

[.30Carbine]

I have no idea who Pelagius is! But I was thinking of this:

How does any one know that they are chosen, elect, predestined?

I attest that it is only because at a point in history they repented of their sins before Holy God and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior He Sent.

[exnavy]

Thank you, bookmarked for future study.

[HarleyD]

"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise", and I'm sure He is still laughing at His magnificent, silly joke.

Perhaps the scripture should be modified to fit the Arminian construct:

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world based upon the choice of all men to confound the wise those who don't want to make the right choice.

Of course that leads into the New Arminian Standard Bible (NARSB to avoid copywrite infridgements). New verses could include:

John 3:16 For God so love the world that whoever believes in Him should have everlasting life regardless of what Paul says about the Jews hearts being hardened in Romans.

Jhn 15:19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world (well, not really), because of this the world hates you because you freely chosen to follow me. But if you run back to the world, too bad.

Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me because he made a decision to follow me after I blinded him, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Rom 16:13 Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord who freely made a decision to follow Christ, and his mother and mine.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, by looking down that time tunnel and seeing which of us would follow Him that we WE should be holy and without blame before him in love because we freely gave ourselves to Him:

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, although it's no big deal because God hath from the beginning chosen you through a general call that He offers everyone to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Jam 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith (caviot: keep in mind He offers this to everyone), and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

1Pe 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness through your decision into his marvellous light:

I can see the royalties pouring in.

[HarleyD]

Paul knew who was elect and chosen. If you believe that the Lord Jesus is the Son of God, that He was raised from the dead and you have repented of your sins to God and asked Him to be Lord of your life, then you are chosen of God.

The only reason you know all of this is because God has laid it upon your heart. You would NEVER have known any of this if the Holy Spirit had not brought you to a point of repentence.