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To: dsc
Thomas a Becket would, and so would Thomas Moore. Joan of Arc was instructed to take to the battlefield. I think you are completely mistaken about that.

You are full of beans.

Moore did not lead a protest, and Beckett also did not protest. Joan of Arc lead troops in a war that was already being fomented. None of these Saints would even presume to protest against a Bishop of the Church who are in union with the Pope.

In Joan of Arc's trial she defended herself as if the judge was lawful and competent (legally) to try her. She acted and submitted to his usurped authority, for the sake of Christ. She did not stage a sit in. She died like a Saint, without screaming curses at her captors, indeed she shouted prayers to Our Lord, and invoked a litany of Saints as she burned. How dare you make her to be a dirty hippie for the disobedient protestor.

They did something that was not Catholic, they railed against the Catholic authority in that Diocese. When I read St. Claude de la Colombiere, in his Trustful Surrender (hardly modernist) I am taught I should submit in the name of Christ, not make a placard.
130 posted on 09/17/2006 10:38:36 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: Dominick

Well, how nice that we went from "No, your argument is not correct" to "You are full of beans."

People who argue from the ecclesial left, as with those who argue from the political left, adhere to the principle, "Go ad hominem early and often."

From that alone one can see that your position is faulty.

"Moore did not lead a protest"

How did "leading" become a factor in this? He protested himself, by denying the king. The king gave him an order; he said no. This "leading" business is a straw man.

"and Beckett also did not protest."

Oh, really? And he suffered the ire of Henry II for supporting him in all things? Of course he protested.

Both these saints protested against kings when ordered to go against the Church; today we are being told to go against the Chruch by bishops, but the principle holds.

"Joan of Arc lead troops in a war that was already being fomented."

It wasn't "being fomented;" it had been underway for some time, and her voices told her to protest the enemy's position to the extent of killing large numbers of them.

Jesus Himself protested the moneylenders in the temple by whipping them off the grounds, overturning their tables, and generally kicking their butts. This is an excellent example to emulate.

"None of these Saints would even presume to protest against a Bishop of the Church who are in union with the Pope."

Immaterial, as they would *all* protest a heretic bishop who is in defiance of the Scriptures, the Holy Father, the Church, and Tradition. Which is what we are dealing with here.


131 posted on 09/17/2006 12:02:44 PM PDT by dsc
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To: Dominick

Abp.Fulton J.Sheen before the KoC Jun/1972. “Who is going to save our Church ? Not our bishops, not our priests and religious. It is up to you, the people. You have the minds, the eyes, the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that your priests act like priests, your bishops like bishops and your religious act like religious.”


141 posted on 09/17/2006 9:12:20 PM PDT by technochick99 ( Firearm of choice: Sig Sauer....)
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To: Dominick; dsc

St Catherine of Siena, Athanasius...Paul to Peter's face...

There are plenty of examples of 'protesters' in the Church's history.


145 posted on 09/18/2006 7:51:01 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Dominick

Yes, and wasn't Beckett's protest against the King and not against the Pope?


156 posted on 09/18/2006 1:32:22 PM PDT by ichabod1 (Freedom of religion means freedom to practice IslamĀ®)
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