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To: vladimir998
Okay, that's a completely ahistorical view, but we'll put it aside for the moment. The point here is that St. Paul says that the Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth and you can barely bring yourself to believe it is true. That's a problem for anyone who claims to be a Christian.

Not really. It matters very little as to whether or not God is the pillar or bulwark, or his church is. It's practically the same thing to those believe that God's church isn't an organization, like the Roman Catholic church, but instead is a called out body of believers whose members transcend manmade institutions.

Your understanding of such things is incomplete to say the least. Protestants disagree on basic doctrines. ALL Protestants. Doesn't that imply that no Protestant, or at leats few Protestants, by your definition, could be a member of the Church or have God's spirit in them or have been led to the truth?

I've told you, despite your attempt to label me as such, I'm not a protestant. I agree that protestanism in general is in confusion. but it's my belief that a great number of people will eventually be led to the truth. Most of this will occur during the great tribulation:

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

and later at the great white throne judgement:

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

73 posted on 07/09/2006 7:47:23 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

You wrote: "Not really. It matters very little as to whether or not God is the pillar or bulwark, or his church is."

What? Only someone who ignores reality could say something like that. If THE Church happens to differ from your sect then it matters a great deal if we're talking about the Church or God here. That point should be painfully obvious to anyone and everyone.

"It's practically the same thing to those believe that God's church isn't an organization, like the Roman Catholic church, but instead is a called out body of believers whose members transcend manmade institutions."

Your paragraph is built upon a whole series of assumptions:

Assumption 1: God's church wouldn't be an organization. Really? It was in the NT so why wouldn't it be now?

Assumption 2: The Catholic Church (and please note the correct name) is like any other religious organization. Really? How many nearly 2,000 year old Christian "organizations do you know?

Assumption 3: The Catholic Church is manmade. Really? In reality here's no logical reason to think it is manmade. Manmade institutions rarely if ever last 2,000 years.

Assumption 4: The Catholic Church as an organization with human members cannot transcend "manmade institutions" or time and space. Really? That makes no sense whatsoever. Clearly the Church transcends all manmade institutions already. Nothing compares to it whatsoever. Also, you tacitly assume that an organization with human members cannot transcend time and space. It can when it is founded by God.

“I've told you, despite your attempt to label me as such, I'm not a protestant.”

I have made no effort whatsoever to label you. YOU ARE A PROTESTANT. To acknowledge the truth of that requires no effort on my part whatsoever.

“I agree that protestanism in general is in confusion. but it's my belief that a great number of people will eventually be led to the truth. Most of this will occur during the great tribulation…and later at the great white throne judgement”

I think many people are continuously being led to the truth. The truth, however, is only part shown and known in Protestantism.


75 posted on 07/10/2006 5:38:08 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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