Gay Theology: Is God "Doing a New Thing"?

VirtueOnline-News ^ | 6/22/2006

[epow]

Seeing this, the grief John Wesley would be experiencing would shatter his heart.

My Godly Methodist grandparents (died 1955 & 1964) would be as heartbroken as Wesley. They were never comfortable about my dad changing his membership from a Methodist to a Baptist church.

Today's UMC overall would be a great disappointment to them, but I can't picture them going to another denomination. I'm sure they would try to find a local Methodist church to attend which is still doctrinally sound in it's teaching and practices even though they would thoroughly disapprove of the course the UMC has taken over the last few decades.

[epow]

Gay Theology: Is God "Doing a New Thing"?

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

[xzins]

For our church there are the Articles of Religion and the Confession of Faith. These are not to be adjusted except by vote of 3/4 of the members of each of our geographic regions (annual conferences) present and counted.

Articles of Religion

http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1817 The Articles of Religion of the Methodist Church I-IV

http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1649 The Articles of Religion of the Methodist Church V-VIII

http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1650 The Articles of Religion of the Methodist Church IX-XV

http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1651 The Articles of Religion of the Methodist Church XVI-XVIII

http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?mid=1648 The Articles of Religion of the Methodist Church XIX-XXIII

http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1653 The Articles of Religion of the Methodist Church XXIV-XXV

and

Confession of Faith

http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1654 The Confession of Faith of The Evangelical United Brethren Church I-V

http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1655 The Confession of Faith of The Evangelical United Brethren Church VI-VIII

http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1656 The Confession of Faith of The Evangelical United Brethren Church IX-XII

http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=1657 The Confession of Faith of The Evangelical United Brethren Church XIII-XVI

[xzins]

A church's official position is just that.

Anyone who doesn't follow it is open to criticism. One can only assume that the church keeps affirming their official postion because most folks want it that way.

[.30Carbine]

<<< Consistency, people! Consistency! >>>

The consistency exists whether you see it or not: from the Mount where Abraham was called to sacrifice his son, his only son, to the scapegoat; from Moses the man who led the people out of bondage to his report - "The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear" - through every history of the patriarchs to every word of the prophets. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. The blood of Christ speaks a better word than that of Abel, but it is the blood of a man, and that was required from the beginning. Christ is the High Priest, in the order of Melchizedec, and such a Mediator is needed to make atonement for sinful man before Holy God. The "Old Covenant" or The Law was in place (as a Schoolmaster) only until He arrived - So that the Law served [to us Jews] as our trainer [our guardian, our guide to Christ, to lead us] until Christ [came], that we might be justified (declared righteous, put in right standing with God) by and through faith, as you can read in Saul of Tarsus' Letter to the Galatian followers of the Way. Have you never read Isaiah?:

1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied ;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

[.30Carbine]

ZC is absolutely right.

No, ZC isn't. Comparing the truth to what these denominations and religions of men are doing and saying will always cause confusion among seekers - that's the reason why they come. Have you not heard the parable?

“The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
Gospel of Matthew

[Global2010]

Bump to Your Post.


A chair is a chair, an apple is an apple and Christ the Lord (Holy Trinity) is Chris the Lord.

simple.

[Global2010]

:I have been fighting oppisition in this world so I took the Last Book on a road trip today and it played 8 times over....

Revelation...

I Prayed for God's Mercy in my own selfish trials...

Grace was bestowed and he is faithful.
He will even forgive a murderer if that person is heart felt sorry for there mortal sin.

[Global2010]

Catholics Rock and there is 2000 yrs to prove it.

[.30Carbine]

He will even forgive a murderer if that person is heart felt sorry for there mortal sin.

He forgave this murderer: I aborted my own child.

It was only in the mercy of God as displayed in Christ that I was even able to face the truth of my sin. It was only in facing the truth of my sin that I was prepared to receive the blood of Jesus to cleanse me.

Hallelujah. Did you know the angels are singing in praise to God for you?!

[Global2010]

Thank You for the highlighted links for others.

[Global2010]

Exactly.

You in your heart between You and the Holy Father reconciled.

The Lamb of God.

We all fall short and must ask forgiveness for grave/mortal sins.

But now adays for some folk to say it is ok to love perversive and that is acceptable...gee I don't think so..

If I was to fornicate I would have to ask for forgiveness,mercy and truly feel wrong about the act.

God has set the rules of Good fruit and what is a honor to his Love and holiness...it is a choice for his sheep.
I personally feel strongly about alot of issues but I can only do my best and Pray for others....

Gotta Let Go and Let God.

He knows the heart of those who are not so cool in false prophetess.

[where HE leads me]

What is the point in them affirming something when they do the opposite? Is it to have something to point to when people question them and say, "Oh, no! This is our official stance."

It was hypocrisy like this that drove me from institutional religion.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.

Hebrews 10:23-25

[Revelation 911]

Her? I think women in positions as pastors is also "incompatible with Christian teaching." Methodism is moving down the same road, although not as far along, as the Episcopal Church.

while we could discuss this until the cows came home, I'll ask you to consider 1 Tim 2, and note a few things

Pauls clearly says in v9, this is his "want".....churches of his period were split in worship styles..women on one side, men on the other. Any questions of thier husbands would prove disruptive as they'd have to literally shout it across the worship area - hence the admonition that they remain silent until they get home.

9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. 11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

are women actually saved through childbearing - again, this is Pauls opinion

and finally, I'll respectfully ask you if your church allows women to teach children in Sunday school ?, does it have female missionaries ?, arent they teachers of the gospel ?

I see the position as problematic

we need to be careful and discern where the Gospel stops and Pauls "wants" begin

the grief John Wesley would be experiencing would shatter his heart.

can you illustrate where you draw this conclusion from ?

[xzins]

institutional religion

"...I will build MY Church."

Jesus was into an institution called "The Church."

[xzins]

even though they would thoroughly disapprove of the course the UMC has taken over the last few decades

No, I think they'd approve of what it's done over the last 2 decades. It was the decades from about 40-70's where liberalism took over the church. You know why?

1. People sat on their hands and let "Joe" volunteer to be their representative at meetings and on committees. (Liberals love to occupy positions of influence. "Joe" was oneof those liberals.)

2. They "left" the church to show their disapproval. (Should have stayed to vote the libs out.)

The last 2 decades we've won every single vote at annual conference and have gradually been turning this thing around.

No thanks to those who "cut and run."

[AppyPappy]

I may be joining the "cut and run" crowd. We seem to be having an issue with a "many paths" message from the pulpit.

[xzins]

women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. are women actually saved through childbearing - again, this is Pauls opinion

Since it is clear that the Apostle Paul believed that all "are saved by grace through faith and that not of ourselves...", then it is also clear that he means some other kind of "salvation" in this passage.

I think he means "relieved of a tendency" that relates to being deceived in the earlier passage.

That would make sense in the context of "child-bearing." Paul appears to be saying that "a family makes a woman more serious-minded."

[xzins]

Don't cut and run. Object and unify.

Then throw the rascal out.

Which part of the country are you in?