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To: NYer
Rorate Cæli takes CWN to task for an imprecise translation of the Le Figaro article. This might shed some light on the issue. New Catholic of Rorate Cæli contends that it's not Rome that has lost interest.
Now, when one wishes to copy a non-profit monitoring service (that is our main job here), mentioning it is not completely necessary, but there must be at least a correct interpretation of the facts. It is true that Bishop Fellay, in the Le Figaro article, used the expression "l'élan de réconciliation"-- but, in this case, this cannot be translated as "enthusiasm", as if Rome had "lost the interest" (as some have WRONGLY interpreted). We chose the translation "movement" because Fellay expressly used, after "l'élan de réconciliation" the word "freiné" (that is, "halted", as in "frein", the "brake" of a machine or of a car).

How on Earth could this mean that "Rome has lost the interest" if Fellay himself says that the process has been halted, DESPITE the fact that it is willed by Pope Benedict, by forces in the Vatican or elsewhere??? Rome IS the Pope; Fellay says that the Pope wills the process; therefore, Rome has lost no "enthusiasm"... but non-papal forces IN Rome or "elsewhere" have succeded in "braking" it for now.
This is how Rorate Cæli translated the passage in question yesterday:
"My impression," he [Bishop Fellay] explains, "is that the movement to reconciliation willed by the Pope has been halted, at the Vatican or elsewhere".

He also recognizes, however, that, in any event, "nothing shall come, undoubtedly, before [their] General Chapter".


7 posted on 06/06/2006 7:06:43 AM PDT by Carolina
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To: Carolina

When it comes right down to it Lefebvrites are no different from any other schismatics throughout history. It does not matter if a person believes in 99.99% of what the Catholic Church teaches if that person also reserves to himself the right to sit in judgment of the Church's teachings and to choose which to accept and which to reject. Ultimately, if you cannot submit your mind and will to the judgemnt of the Church, you are a heretic or schismatic. SSPX patronizes Rome and presumes to teach Rome. They should reread St. Ignatius of Antioch's Letter to the Romans, where he humbly says that he does not presume to instruct the Roman Church as though he were a Peter or a Paul. But what St. Ignatius of Antioch (the greatest bishop of Asia, on his way to martyrdom) would not dare to do, these nobodies who lead SSPX presume to do. They should also read St. Augustine's contemptuous dismissal of the Donatists and their setting up of themselves against the whole Church of God. Schismatics are the same in every age. Many if not most schismatics were complaining against the "laxness" of Rome. They thought Rome was too soft. This was true of Hippolytus, of Tertullian, of Cyprian in his conflict with Popes Stephen and Cornelius (though he never went into schism), of the Donatists, of the Jansenists, of the Feeneyites. We tend to think of heresy as being being driven by a desire for a loosening of doctrine or morals. It is often quite the opposite. Many schismatics have been doctrinal or moral "rigorists". The spirit of schism is an ugly thing and its on full display in the SSPX leadership.


11 posted on 06/06/2006 7:41:33 AM PDT by smpb (smb)
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To: Carolina; sitetest; BlackElk
In 1976, Pope Paul VI called out Lefevbre publicly and in correspondence to him. He scolded him at length (see The Wanderer, June 6,2006) and everything Pope Paul said has been proved true. Here are a few samples from the rhetorical whipping rightly administered by Pope Paul

"...Moreover you hold that the suspension that you have occured (Lefevbre ordained priests at Econe after having been specifically told by the Pope not to)applies only to the celebration of sacraments according to the new rite, as it they were something improperly introduced into the Church, which you go so far as to call schismatic, and you think that you evade this sanction when you administer the sacraments according to the formulas of the past and against established norms...

In your case, the old rite is in fact the expression of a warped ecclesiology...

Of course there is room in the Church for a certain pluralism, but in licit matters and in obedience.

As far as concerns Our person, you will make a point of desisting from and retracting the grave accusations or insiunations which you have publicly leveled against Us, against the orthodoxy of Our faith, and Our fidelity to Our charge as the Succesor of Peter...

That was THIRTY years ago. Yet, we all know what happened. He refused to close Econe. He continued to caluminate the Pope. He continued to attack the Mass. He continued to attack the Ecumenical Council. He called the Pope the AntiChrist. Even after being warned not to ordain Bishops, he went right ahead and ordained them anyways.

And some consider him the champion of "tradition."

Fellay appears, if possible, even less stable and reliable than the progenitor of the schism. Fellay calls the normative mass "evil," and he rejects an Ecumenical Council and he thinks Jews as a race are cursed.

This has been going on for THIRTY years.

I used to wonder why the Popes just didn't formally excommunicate the bunch lock, stock, and barrel.

Then, it occured to me. Our Sweet Jesus on Earth, the Pope, acts like Jesus did towards Judas. Jesus loved Judas until the end. He tried to set him right. Even when Judas betrayed Him with a kiss, He responded with love. But, in the end, He let Judas go and hang himself.

The Popes loved Lefevbre. They tried to set him right. Even after he betrayed them they loved him. Even after he called the Pope the AntiChrist, the Pope loved him and tried to bring him back. But, in the end, the Pope let him hang himself.

Even now, after 30 years of unrelenting hatred, lies, opposition, heresies etc etc, the Pope, with love and charity meets with them and tries to bring them back into the fold.

We are Blessed to be alive during the reigns of such loving, briliant, orthodox,Christian,Popes.

As for the sspx? Outside of FR and the schismatic press, NOBODY either knows or cares about them. They are too busy being faithful Christians

15 posted on 06/06/2006 8:51:52 AM PDT by bornacatholic (Pope Paul VI. "Use of the old Ordo Missae is in no way left to the choice of priests or people.")
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