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To: churchillbuff
I'm sorry, but the writer, and by extension this belief system is hopelessly infantile.

Universalists believe that God is too good to damn them

Contrary to what one might think, given my previous statement, I believe that to be a true statement.

For all my many failings, the day I wake up dead I won’t be in a cattle car on the fast train to Satan’s fiery pit. Nor will you. And neither will Old Scratch himself. If he actually exists, the devil too will be saved. In the good news of universalism, God is a loving God who will not rest until the entire creation is redeemed. All creatures will be saved. There is no hell.

This is the statement that is hopelessly stupid.  There is no "cattle car" to "Satan's fiery pit" for sure, but that isn't hell, and it never was.  Hell is, quite simply, the opposite of Heaven.  And Heaven is, quite simply, communion with God.  If we are not in communion with God then we are "in hell."

When we die we will find ourselves confronted by the reality of God without the delusions and idiotic self deception exemplified by the above statement.  I am not capable of imagining what God truly is like, no one is, but we will know exactly who God is and we will know, without the ability to hide behind forgetfullness or rationalizations, exactly how we have failed Him.  And we will be ashamed.

God is Mercy, God is Love and God forgives us.  But God is not about to let us lie, even to ourselves.  And until we get past the absolute truth of our own failures in this life we will be too ashamed to commune with our God.  We will condemn ourselves to hell, not God. 

God loves us.  God has always loved us and God will always love us.  And He gave us Jesus as proof of that, as something to hold onto when we have to confront our own failings.  We don't have to believe in Jesus to be saved by God or from God's wrath.  We are already saved and the proof of God's love is Jesus.  That's why we have to believe in Jesus, to convince ourselves to remember God's love when we must inevitably face how we have failed Him.

25 posted on 04/01/2006 7:55:09 PM PST by Phsstpok (There are lies, damned lies, statistics and presentation graphics, in descending order of truth)
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To: Phsstpok
Well said, and nicely stated, neighbor.

Thank you.

46 posted on 04/02/2006 3:23:52 AM PDT by backhoe (Just an Old Keyboard Cowboy, Ridin' the Trakball into the Dawn of Information)
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To: Phsstpok

Scripture definitely doesn't imply Hades and the Lake of Fire are mere expressions of sentiment. Man was created body, soul and spirit. Upon sin, man existed in a state of separation from God spiritually, i.e. dead to God in the spirit.

Scripture as the Word of God, provides a written communication to the thinking processes of soulish man and to believers. This means unbelievers with only body and soul are being communicated with as well as believers with body soul and spirit.

There are many places in Scripture where places such as Hades and the Lake of Fire and three different categories of Heaven are discussed. Just as the ascension of our Lord Christ Jesus is discussed and his walking on water is discussed.

These Scriptural references aren't merely parables, but very well describe very real physical phenomenon and places by their syntax and grammar.

The Lake of Fire, might be better understood as a place reserved for those things judged by God to be simply 'good for nothingness' or 'PONEROS' in the Greek, rather than a prison or penal institution. God created those things that will end up in the Lake of Fire, but Scripture never says he takes existence out of their essence, rather he categorizing that essence in the Great White Throne Judgment.

Those who use the argument of 'love' frequently fail to discern the meanings of love as used in Scripture and the language of Scripture. Any sound argument using God's love might also best express His impersonal love for all mankind via his personal love for the Son. It also isn't very loving to place His believers in a place where unbelievers have created so much evil.

When studying Scriptural references to good and evil, it is onteresting to note the differences between divine good and human good.


50 posted on 04/02/2006 6:40:41 AM PDT by Cvengr
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To: Phsstpok

Well thought out post, thanks!


59 posted on 04/02/2006 7:59:54 AM PDT by shattered
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