Posted on 04/01/2006 7:37:23 PM PST by churchillbuff
The difference between Universalists and Unitarians (the old joke has it) is that Universalists believe that God is too good to damn them, whereas Unitarians believe that they’re too good to be damned. I am a Universalist.
For all my many failings, the day I wake up dead I won’t be in a cattle car on the fast train to Satan’s fiery pit. Nor will you. And neither will Old Scratch himself. If he actually exists, the devil too will be saved. In the good news of universalism, God is a loving God who will not rest until the entire creation is redeemed. All creatures will be saved. There is no hell.
It’s easy to understand why hell was invented (if quite late in the biblical record). Eternal damnation solves the sticky part of the problem of evil: Why do good things happen to bad people? Reserving a corner of hell for all who escape well-deserved punishment here on earth balances the moral ledger sheet. Justice is done. Otherwise, not only is life unfair; the afterlife becomes unfair as well.
The problem is, when we project our retributive logic onto a cosmic screen, we pervert the divine image. We predicate hell on the irreverent presumption that God’s appetite for vengeance—an all-voracious version of our own nagging hunger—must be satisfied. "She’ll get hers in hell," we say. That balances our ledger, but it turns God into a jailer.
The idea of purgatory makes perfectly good sense. I can imagine the utility of corrective punishment. But eternal hellfire demeans everything I believe about God. More important, it eviscerates the heart of Jesus’ gospel.
Jesus was anything but a biblical literalist. He teaches by parable, not by citing chapter and verse, and gets into holy mischief by repeatedly breaking the letter of scripture. Love is the sum and substance of all the law and the prophets, he teaches. He enjoins us to forgive and love our enemies. "Your enemy be damned," is no part of his gospel.
"Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect," Jesus instructs his disciples. That perfection can be summed up in three words, each an expression of divine love: justice, mercy and forgiveness. Standing alone, justice might allow for the creation of hell, but mercy and forgiveness render it morally impossible. We can sift a spoonful of evidence for hell from the scriptures, even as we can ladle out dozens of arguments for slavery. Neither, however, meets the requirements of the biblical Spirit, whose imperative is love.
If we, mere humans, can forgive unforgettable damage, can't God?
THANKS TONS.
JimRob was gracious and allowed me back. Have sure missed my loved ones hereon, though I tried to keep up from lurker status.
Had a very hard time being out of the work against Shrillery's push for the White House.
So, trying to be on my best behavior!
Blessed to see your screen name. Please Freepmail me an update on you and family.
LUB
"But they're the ones who choose to be unrighteous; therefore it's their own faults and not God's."
Agreed. Entirely.
I suspect some folks chose not to believe in Hell because if they did, they'd have to admit they have family and friends there...
If there's no Hell, we didn't need Jesus to be our sacrifice to stay out of it...
Besides those who utterly reject the Love of God and embrace evil would find being in the presence of that love absolute torture. They would not feel it as an all the all consuming fire of God's love for us.
They would feel it as the fire that is never quenched. They of course will feel that in hell. The only difference being they will also be separated from God and will have no hope of heaven. But that is because of their choice. God gives us chance after chance to repent and come to Him. He never says go away.
God is a merciful God but He is also a just God. Yes He desires all men to be saved but we have the gift of free will and God does not prevent our exercising it.
Her certainly is not a Christian. Otherwise we would have no need of a Redeemer!
Thank you.
He certainly is not a Christian. Otherwise we would have no need of a Redeemer!
There's Paris, France.
Scripture definitely doesn't imply Hades and the Lake of Fire are mere expressions of sentiment. Man was created body, soul and spirit. Upon sin, man existed in a state of separation from God spiritually, i.e. dead to God in the spirit.
Scripture as the Word of God, provides a written communication to the thinking processes of soulish man and to believers. This means unbelievers with only body and soul are being communicated with as well as believers with body soul and spirit.
There are many places in Scripture where places such as Hades and the Lake of Fire and three different categories of Heaven are discussed. Just as the ascension of our Lord Christ Jesus is discussed and his walking on water is discussed.
These Scriptural references aren't merely parables, but very well describe very real physical phenomenon and places by their syntax and grammar.
The Lake of Fire, might be better understood as a place reserved for those things judged by God to be simply 'good for nothingness' or 'PONEROS' in the Greek, rather than a prison or penal institution. God created those things that will end up in the Lake of Fire, but Scripture never says he takes existence out of their essence, rather he categorizing that essence in the Great White Throne Judgment.
Those who use the argument of 'love' frequently fail to discern the meanings of love as used in Scripture and the language of Scripture. Any sound argument using God's love might also best express His impersonal love for all mankind via his personal love for the Son. It also isn't very loving to place His believers in a place where unbelievers have created so much evil.
When studying Scriptural references to good and evil, it is onteresting to note the differences between divine good and human good.
"If I knew God I'd be Him."
A Universalist lecturing others about Christian doctrine. Pretty amusing.
Marry my ex and you will never make that statement again.
No hell eh?
Just wait till Hillery! is elected.
There is only Divine good. Man cannot do good from himself - only evil.
Have you forgotten about '06?
Well thought out post, thanks!
No, there is plenty of human good. The difference is that human good, separate from God, is parlayed into evil as a policy of Satan, to produce a counterfeit Millenium and perfect worldly environment, i.e. a worldly system, the KOSMOS.
This is an important tool to use when we fall into soulish perspectives, though some believers might be more prone to lasciviousness, than legalism.
Here is an example. A person who was raised in a Judeo-Christian CULTURE, and believes God exists by rationalistic argument, but never through faith in the person of the Son of God, our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus, yearns to perform 'good works' in order to further his position with God on his own works, rather than through faith in Christ. Perhaps he observes or hears about how freemasons build hospitals for burn victims and orphans, rendering medical treatment free of financial burden to those who are poor and suffering physically.
Such a person might indeed perform good works in building such hospitals, but when they are built and operated WITHOUT faith through Christ, they instead are parlayed into evil as a counterfeit plan by Satan to create a perfect world environment independent of God's plan.
The good still exists, but it is a human good void of divine righteousness, that still will result in a final judgment of something that is good for nothingness.
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