[jecIIny]

See the link to the original website for some interesting comments.

[jecIIny]

Ping for your lists.

[jecIIny]

My comment from the original web site...

Neither the Catholic nor Orthodox Christian tradition demands pacifism. We are not Quakers. There has always been a clear right to self defense. Self defense may be exercised by both individuals and society as a whole when threatened by unlawful violence. However, care must be taken not to confuse a justifiable exercise of force in self defense with simple revenge. The Government of Nigeria must be told in no uncertain terms to deal with the issue and protect religious minorities in the Moslem part of the country or the Christian part will be within their rights to take such measures as may be reasonably necessary to protect themselves from further aggression. If the government is unable or unwilling to maintain order in a religiously pluralistic society then Christians should consider the possibility of secession. They could form their own country and place strict limits on Moslem immigration into their “new” country.

This is not politically correct advice. But I think it’s time to start being blunt. One of the major problems is the unwillingness of liberal enlightened people in the west to recognize danger when it is approaching. I think Islamic immigration should be banned in Europe for at least ten years. Our own immigration laws are so restrictive already that it is not a major issue here. But in Europe and many other culturally Christian parts of the world there is a serious danger that they are going to be overwhelmed in an Islamic tidal wave. And their total inability to see Islam as something other than a benign religion is very frightening.

It reminds me of a story I once heard. There was an old man who walked into an Irish bar and ordered a drink. The bartender started to converse with the customer and the topic came up of ancestry. The old man said he was Jewish and his family had been wiped out by the Nazis. The Irish bartender sighed in sympathy and asked why the man’s family did not flee when the Nazis took over. The old man said they were an educated and cultured people. They could no believe anyone was capable of such evil. The bartender said his family knew that the Jews were going to be massacred almost as soon as Hitler took office. “How is that?” asked the old man in disbelief. He replied “Because Hitler said he would do it. And while my family was not educated or cultured, no Irishman has ever underestimated man’s capacity for evil. We know better from experience.”

Yes I am Irish, and I have nothing but very bad feelings about this.

[FormerLib]

As the troops who chased the Jihadist scum out of Srebrenica learned, sometimes you have to kill the Muhammedans to stop them from killing.

[Kolokotronis]

Ping

[.30Carbine]

O God our Father in Jesus Christ, through Your Powerful and Wise Holy Spirit grant grace to our persecuted brethren in Nigeria for this time of trial! Show them Your Way out, as You have promised to do, that with every temptation a way out will be provided: let them seek Your Way and do Your Will! Father, send help, The Helper, and many helpers to strengthen and encourage Your People in Nigeria, and cause even this to work together for the good of those who love You and are Called according to Your Purpose in Christ Jesus. Thy Kingdom Come. Let the Kingdoms of this world become the Kingdoms of Our God and Christ, for the nations are Your Inheritance, Yeshua, and all must bow the knee and confess that Thou Art Lord. Maranatha, Yeshua.

[The_Reader_David]

Turning the other cheek is for each of us, individually.

I have often pointed out that it is a blessing that except for the woman taken in adultery, we have no example from Our Lord of how to respond to violence toward another. Plainly Christians must imitate His example: diplomacy first.

But, if one can't talk down those intent on violence, how does the Christian respond?

Sometimes it is better to be a pacifist and permit evil, while not doing evil. Sometimes it is better to fight, yes, even to kill, though that is evil, to resist a greater evil.

This tension is plain in Orthodox tradition, which has never forbidden military service by the laity (once being in the legion didn't require pagan practices), but requires clergy in major orders to be pacifists; has services for blessing the arms of Orthodox laymen going to war and special versions of the trisagion prayers of mercy for Orthodox warriors, but prescribes penance for those who kill, even in a war sanctioned by duely constituted authorities, even by an Orthodox emperor.

[redgolum]

My wife and talked of this some time ago when remembering 911.

She said that she would start singing hymns and prepare to meet the Lord. I said I would not go quietly if there was a possibility of saving others.

As Christians, we do have a right to self defense. There is such a thing as just war. The hard part is that we often believe that violence is just more because of our own pride than reality.

[NYer]

An unidentified man walks near to a church that was burnt during violent protests yesterday at the city of Maiduguri, Nigeria, Sunday, Feb. 19, 2006. Thousands of Nigerian Muslims protesting caricatures depicting the Prophet Muhammad attacked Christians and burned churches in northeastern Nigeria, killing at least 15 people, police and residents said.(AP Photo)

Catholic Ping - Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list

[Aquinasfan]

Are there limits to the dominical exhortation to turn the other cheek?

"Turn the other cheek" was an admonition to bear insults, not a call to pacifism. Then, as now, a slap in the face signfied an insult.

If Christ meant us to be pacifists, he wouldn't have commanded, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one (Luke 22:36)."

[Rytwyng]

Is there a ministry where we can donate guns to Nigerian churches? Sort of like the NRA's appeal in 1940 to donate guns for the British home guard?

[eleni121]

It appears that Nigeria's brave Christian community has not been sufficiently dhimmified as some others in the world have, in particular the Middle East.

The Lord Jesus' blessings and love to our Nigerian brohters and sisters.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Anyone in a position of authoriy (including all elected and appointed officials and the fathers of familes, at least) have th eobligation to protect the people who depend on them. This is not retaliation---- retaliation is forbidden. ALL noncombatants must b protected. ALL captured and disarmed enemies must be treated decently. But what is needed is straight-ahead justified defense, using force, including potentially lethal force.

In the long run, the Muslims must turn aeway from their belligerent doctrines and be converted to Christ (as must we all.) They will do so through the love of Christians. Butin the short run, assaults on the innocent must be forcibly stopped.

[sionnsar]

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